Uncomfortable insurance questions

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SamV

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I was getting a few homeowners insurance quotes recently, aand was posed some uncomfortable questions. I only called a few companies and since I did not find any savings over my current carrier, I decided not to change.
But one large company asked the following questions: (questions are as I remember them)
Are there firearms in the home?
Are they stored unloaded in a locked and secure place, such as a safe?
Have you completed a certified firearm training and safety course?

I realize these guys are trying to limit their risks. They do ask about swimming pools and trampolines and other things. But I admit these questions make me feel uncomfortable. I know they have a right to know about possible liabilities. Do I live in a flood zone? Or What type construcion is my house, age of roof, age of wiring, etc. I just thinks that this crosses the line for me though. I don't think I would go with an company that asks firearm questions unless it was for a add-on rider.

What thoughts do other THR members have on this topic?
 
Get real...

"Unless you ask them for insurance on the gun's [sic] it's none of their business.."

Nonsense. Homeowners insurance covers CONTENTS as well as the structure. That means the guns inside the house as well.

It also covers negligent acts, including the storage (which is to say, the LACK thereof) or misuse of firearms. I would not be happy with the questions either, but I'm not foolish enough to declare it's not the insurance company's business.

DOCTORS are a wholly different issue. :scrutiny:
 
Reasonable Risk Model

Sam,

I don't see the reason for your uncomfortableness. Please remember what you are doing, namely entering into a risk management partnership with your insurance company.

Your firearms represent a high value theft target and hence the questions about how they are secured. As this is a risk management exercise, the insurance company does have a vested interest in your degree of training. As an example, you can sure bet that my insurance company wants to know about my additional training for my experimental aircraft before insuring it.

I've had to estimate the value of my firearms, along with other high dollar collections, such as jewelry and silver. I did not have a second thought in doing so.

In short, I think you are ok.

John
 
Doesn't the liability portion of a homeowner's policy offer coverage if someone were to be shot on your property? For instance, a child shooting another child with one of your guns? Seems to me that the gun questions serve to quantify the insurance company's exposure, much the same as the pool and trampoline questions and the questions about the structure itself. The insurance company has a right to know what risks it is assuming and to structure its premiums based on that risk. Indeed, an insurance company can refuse to insure if it deems the risk factors to be unacceptable. Thus questions about risk factors.
 
John, As I stated, I understand the typical risk questions that they ask. My being uncomfortable was in the follow up questions. This was not for a rider. They did not ask the value of a collection or what was in it. It was for a basic policy.
What about the homeowner that keeps a firearm loaded and unsecured for protection? (assuming no kids and local laws allow it) Do they not get insurance? What about those who have a concealed carry permit? Can they have insurance? Their gun is presumably loaded and not secured in a safe. Would they accept a claim if that person locked their firearm in their vehicle while going to a place that does not allow them like a courthouse, etc, and that vehicle was broken into?
Maybe if they had just asked if there were firearms in the home, I might have said OK. It was the "certification" and the "unloaded and locked in a secure device" that got me.
Insurance companies are private businesses and I believe they have a right to business as they like. They have to make a profit and determing the risks they underwrite is reasonable. Surely there is a line though. They do not ask me if I have glazed tile in my bathroom, very slick when wet. They do not ask me about storage or training of my extensive and expensive kitchen/meatcutting knives. They do not ask me about nailguns, chainsaws, or other potentially dangerous tools and whether or not I have "certified" training. They did not ask if I have lead paint in my house. What if somebody comes to visit and their teething toddler chews on my windowsills.
BTW, I have completed a NRA pistol course. Does that mean I am certified? I am an avid shotgunner, Am I covered if they find out I never took a shotgun course over the decades and something hapens? I guess all I am really saying is; ask me reasonable questions, just don't go too far unless it is for a specific rider.
I didn't go with them, they weren't the lowest price and other companies didn't ask those questions. Most insurors ask pretty much the same questions. The fact that this one was specific on this issue set off my alert system.
Thanks for responding, I am just trying find out how common this is.
 
Tongue Firmly in Cheek (Well Sorta)

SamV,

First off let me say welcome to the fray.
Second Stand your ground on this issue if it makes you feel uncomfortable to answer then do not.
I feel a tinfoil hat black helicopter moment coming on:eek: :eek: Hold On ( as I open my my bunker safe and take out my foil hat and place it on my head ) AAHHH that stops the spy's:D :D .
Now we can converse, It has been my view that the Government is made up of Three groups these days they are all either Lawyers, Realestate scumbags, Or Insurance salesmen.
That makes the questions extra alarming, reason being when the anti gun lobbies go to work they start pulling numbers and statistics out of the magic statistics number pooping butt. And what feeds that number spewing colon? Why survey questions like the ones they want answered. Now think of it like this, if the Insurance Salesmen are such an integral part of the Effluent settling pond that our Nations Capitol has become, Don't you think it is likely that the information you share with them may be passed along to the Political Clowns In the Halls Of Clowngress?
Say no to back door surveys handed out by Political Clowns.
Now that I have finished my rant ( Removes Tinfoil hat).
Stand firm on your refusal to answer questions that are none of anybodies business.
As for Tory, why is it I get the feeling that you are either a Lawyer or worse yet Insurance Lawyer? YUCK, YUCK, YUCK :neener: :neener:

DarthBubba:evil:
 
DOCTORS are a wholly different issue.
Click to expand...

As a medical student in an office setting, we are taught to ask about potential risks to our patients. This includes wearing seat belts, safety around the pool, and (unfortunately) firearm saftey. It is part of a standardized risk assessment questionnaire.

Typically I ask about swimming pools and seatbelt usage, however, if a particular doctor or attending asks me to ask about firearms, I instruct him that I will, however, more people are killed in motor vehicle accidents and drownings than by guns. I also tell him that guns don't kill people and that the person behind the gun is ultimately responsible. When I ask the patient and they respond yes, I let them know that it is important to follow all the gun rules that we THR's abide by.:D

I do it as part of the job and I care for the well being of my patients and our children more so than anything else. It is not that I'm gonna give a left winged "guns are bad" speech or anything like that, but to just bring awareness to safe gun handling.

I remember reading a post a while back that a Pediatrician asked a youngster about guns and, personally, I think he was out of line:cuss: and that the subject should have been brought up with the parents first and reminded them about safety and education with the child.

Not all Doctors are evil, gun hating people that wish everyone would turn them in as scrap metal at the next police buy back program. OK, enough of my rant.
 
I realize these guys are trying to limit their risks. They do ask about swimming pools and trampolines and other things. But I admit these questions make me feel uncomfortable
Click to expand...

I hear you on this, it's never an easy point in entering into any "relationship" with a company over personal matters. As others said here, it's all about them understanding what they are getting into if you make a claim. Increasingly insurers are more and more deleterious to homeowners more than before since the expense of lawyers and courts is huge to the average person.

Saying that however, YOU control your situation. I don't answer questions I don't want to answer. I don't lie, I just don't answer. So if you are uncomfortable about a given question, just don't comment. It's your right. Of course do this with an understanding that they may not like this.

I do it all the time in the retail businesses. All the marketing questions and asking for personal info is very buggy to me. So I don't tell them. They don't like it, but they still do business with me.
 
As a medical student in an office setting, we are taught to ask about potential risks to our patients. This includes wearing seat belts, safety around the pool, and (unfortunately) firearm saftey. It is part of a standardized risk assessment questionnaire.
Click to expand...
I've never understood this. A doctor's job is to treat the illness/injury the patient is being seen for, not to worry about some possible injury that might happen in the future. Unless it pertains directly to the illness/injury the patient is seeking treatment for, I don't undertand why doctors need to caution their patients about all the other unrelated dangers in the world. That's what my Mom is for.

Yes, I know I should wear my seatbelt. Yes, I know I shouldn't drink and then go for a swim in the pool. Yes, I know I should be careful where I point a gun. Can we please fix my broken arm now?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just making a point. Years ago my daughter, who was 8 at the time, broke her arm at school. While she was sitting there in the hospital waiting for her broken arm to be re-set, I had to fill out questionnaires about completely unrelated dangers in the home, including questions about guns.

I admit I don't know anything about the medical profession, so if anyone can enlighten me about this, please do.
 
If you look at any risk table, firearms are always waaaaay down towards the bottom of the list.

Therefore:

The inclusion of firearms in any risk assessment model that does not include all items of higher risk implies that the risk of firearms is higher than it actually is.

We can reasonably infer that this is politically motivated.

Period.

Full stop.
 
I agree 100% with you guys, trust me.

However, in a sue happy world, we are becoming more CYOA based than treat the patient based. Part of what we do is mandated by the insurance companies. We have to jump through hoops all the time, just like our patients. When was the last time you could just have a procedure done or a prescription prescribed and filled without having a damned prior approval. Many of you that are on Enbrel, Nexium, etc will know what I'm talking about. That's right, damn insurance companies again. You don't have to fill out the questionnaire at all and I suggest that if you don't want to, don't.

If you'll read my post again, you'll see that I'm not crazy about asking about guns. Not that I'm uncomfortable with it, just that I think it is not as necessary as other things; it is just that I'm asked to do it by my authority figure whether it be an attending or other senior member.

I agree with you guys 100%, but I just want everyone to know that we are requested (and in my case, pretty much demanded) that we ask about guns. Each doctor is different and we all aren't anti-gun, left-winged, super liberals.
 
I've never understood this. A doctor's job is to treat the illness/injury the patient is being seen for, not to worry about some possible injury that might happen in the future. Unless it pertains directly to the illness/injury the patient is seeking treatment for, I don't undertand why doctors need to caution their patients about all the other unrelated dangers in the world. That's what my Mom is for.
Click to expand...

Darth, I agree to some degree, however, if given the chance, I'd rather prevent disease than cure it. I also think that you may have misunderstood my (unfortunately) comment. By unfortunately I meant that it is unfortunate that they ask doctors to ask this question as I don't think that it belongs anywhere except, perhaps, in a Pediatricians office when the doctor is going over ways to secure the home, with the parents, and make it safe for the child.

The example that was given was a broken arm. That would fall under trauma and is, likely, unavoidable. OK, set the arm, cast it and in a couple of weeks, all is good.

However, it is much easier and cheaper to avoid disease such as diabetes, coronary heart disease, hypertension, etc. Ask any patient that has diabetic neuropathy and is getting thier leg cut off at the knee because of gangrene if they would either go back 30 years and eat healthier, exercise, etc or have thier leg chopped off, guess which one they'd pick.

I'm not arguing the gun point here, as I think we are in agreement. I am just arguing the point that we treat disease/problems vs prevention of disease/problems and point out that doctors as a whole can't be lumped into a catergory of prying, coniving, SOB's that are anti-gun. That's all. Now lawyers on the other hand...:neener:

Now back to the original question. I agree that unless you have a seperate rider for your firearms that there is no reason for them to be asking.
 
How much?

If you have private firearms insurance separate from your H.O. policy, then I suggest:

"I decline to answer that question for personal security reasons". disclosing the presence or absence of firearms in a domicile could increase the risk of being targeted for a home invasion, burglary or worse.

Accordingly, answer the same way for any related question. Seriously, you don't know who's on the other end of the phone and who will have access to the information. Minimizing your risks is a good idea.

:uhoh: yeah... I moved guns under the cover of darkness last time ... which may or may not be mine.... Paranoid? No. It's just that everybody's out to get me. :p That's what the voices tell me anyway...
 
My older brother has a significant collection...and when he was updating his homeowner's policy he was given two options:

1) He could get blanket coverage for X dollars worth of firearms no questions asked.
or
2) He could put his entire collection (make, model, serial number, value) on record and have all of it protected.

Call us paranoid...but we scattered the collection across 3 households and kept information mentioned above to ourselves.
 
Get used to it

they've been doing stuff like this to dog owners for the last few years. Either they won't insure you if you own certain breeds, or will charge extra. Mostly just another excuse to raise premiums, as actual risk is not proportionate to (total) premiums they charge.
 
...doctors as a whole can't be lumped into a catergory of prying, coniving, SOB's that are anti-gun.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know, I wasn't trying to imply that. I was just seeking some clarification about something I don't understand.

I understand your point of view, and I'll buy the stuff about superiors and insurance companies, that all makes sense. But I still don't believe that telling people things they already know will prevent anything. In the case of pediatrics, I can see the value there. But when dealing with adults and their own injury/illness? You might as well tell Ted Kennedy that cars don't float.
 
I agree with Johnmcl. The insurance company is in the business of determining risk. They have every right to know how well you high value items are secured. Just like they ask whether you have dead bolts on your doors. Since they can also be liable if someone is injured by a weapon in your home they want to know if you have any idea how to safely handle one.
 
Some friends of mine just got their homeowner's insurance cancelled because they admitted to keeping a handful of chickens on their farm. The terrible hazard of bird flue, you know?

If you don't tell them about the guns you're not covered for anything related to them, but given the situation with insurance these days it may come down to that. As a guy who lives on a small farm in a 150 year old house it can be darned tough to find insurance.
 
osteodoc08 ,

I have learned to answer these questions with one of my own.

Doctor; Do you have any firearms at home?

Me; Doctor, are you familiar with the term, Boundary Violation?

Doctor; Yes I am. Is there any history of high blood pressure in your family?

Problem solved.

One day the doctor asked why I always went to the restroom before and after every visit. This doc is cool, some of his staff is not.

I said I go before the visit to take my gun off my hip and put it in my briefcase and I go when I leave to put it back on my hip. He just smiled.

Besides, the gun, holster and extra ammo add about three pounds when they weigh me. :neener:


DM
 
No insurance company "needs" to know about your guns.

When I was getting homeowners insurance, I asked them about covering guns. They told me that the basic policy covered, IIRC, $2K in losses. I bought a rider for a few more K in coverage. My choice. And no, I didn't have to list manufacturer, model, serial # either :)
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. As I stated only one company asked these questions. It seems easy enough at this point to simply choose one of the many companies that don't ask these questions. And no I don't have a rider on my current policy because my "collection" is not quite at the additional rider point just yet. Basic coverage is sufficient. I'm working on it though.
 
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