Unconventional weapons

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by JTHunter, May 28, 2021.

  1. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Paradoxically, if your opponent has a gun, you might be safer unarmed than if armed merely with a knife. If you pull out the knife, you'll be shot for sure, as the opponent feels immediately threatened. If you're unarmed, depending on what his motives are, he might leave you alone after robbing you. The answer is either to carry a gun yourself, or avoid these kinds of situations entirely. Carrying a knife for defensive purposes is just a bad idea. If, by some chance, the bad guy also has a knife (but no gun), he's likely to be far more experienced in this sort of thing than you are. So you lose either way.
     
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  2. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Where do you get these ideas? A lot more people go to training and practice with knives than criminals do. The challenge is that a violent criminal is more likely to have greater will, not the experience, than the victim. Also, criminals are interested in selecting victims that look like easy targets. People who prepare don't generally look like easy targets. They don't have the body language. No, the professionals I've trained with have all said this "criminal will win if you fight back" trope is a myth and my personal experience being attacked bears that out.

    But since this is an unconventional weapons thread, how'd we get on knives in the first place???;)

    The easiest use for a folder is as a fist load or kubaton. Less lethal, not commonly thought of, and easier to put to use than opening the blade. At least that is an unconventional approach.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  3. 25-5
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    25-5 Contributing Member

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    My favorite is a 2011. caddy.jpg
     
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  4. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    You're making a lot of assumptions here.

    I'm a weapon of opportunity kinda guy, first of all. Second, I'm not going to depend on the "good graces" of any home invader when it comes to the safety and well being of me and mine.

    If a knife is what is most readily available, than I'll be arming myself with a knife. If a baseball bat, machete, wrench, scissors, worm shocker, hammer, box cutter, screwdriver, length of chain, heavy bookend, or anything else is readily at hand, I'll be scooping it up and laying to.

    And if he's got a knife instead of a gun? I'm not about to go one-on-one with a knife on equal footing. Distance weapons for that. Nobody walks away from a knife fight without bleeding, so don't make it a knife fight.

    Yeah...moving to a better place of safety and calling for help is always the first option if possible. But when I've got nowhere to go and the chips are down, the teeth and claws come out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
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  5. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    Ill tell you what is a scary "weapon" :
    a scruffy looking good sized antifa type dressed young man suddenly came up behind me while my wife and I were standing in a line on a town street waiting to get into a trendy breakfast place last sunday. He turned on a blue toothed speaker in his hand pushed into my face with loud angry rap music (he was white) as he walked by and I retreated back a step to stay out of his reach , but he just kept striding by. As he passed by I noticed his slung black back pack had about a 30" yellow Halligan Fire entry bar on the side of it with velcro straps to release it ! I thought long and hard about what ifs defending myself from a young crazed street person from that fierce high grade tool! He probably purloined it from all the fire fighters that were in the Oregon woods fighting fires last fall. A 30" Halligan bar would be ferocious, no fooling around there. Yes Petunia I had my Walther PPS on me , but he came in to my space very quickly and could have cold conked me before I could have drawn.
     
  6. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Definitely a fine example of something that situational awareness could alert people to, though the sudden appearance of such an individual can be easily accomplished to the best of us.

    While the "sudden appearance" thing will happen from time to time, every encounter in our day-to-day life is a potential exercise in observational skills. Sitting in a restaurant or standing in line positioned for best viewing of your surroundings, watching people for various signs, thinking about "what ifs" if you see someone who might be a threat for any reason.

    As a "game" (meaning "exercise of skills" during your normal routine) it can help each of us hone our skills.

    Then, when an actual encounter like yours pops up, we're more likely to have a response ready if required.

    I think it's also important for us to think about "unconventional weapons" from two standpoints:

    - The personal need for a weapon of opportunity.
    - The weapon someone else may have.

    For the personal need, consideration for how WE would use such a weapon should be part of the process, because different weapons of opportunity have their pros and cons.

    The flip side of the coin is how someone ELSE could use such a weapon and what the pros and cons are for that.

    That can play a big role in how we respond to threats.

    One of my favorite quotes (from "The Bad Guy's Quote Book") from Al Capone: "Always rush a gun and run from a knife." Tactics which guide threat response based on the weapon of the opponent. Certain weapons dictate distance as a better aspect of defense, while others warrant close quarters. A guy with a length of chain, for example, can't do much damage as an impact weapon if you're too close for him to swing.

    A guy with a Halligan Fire Entry Bar? That's a scary weapon indeed. It's an incredibly dangerous bludgeon, yet pointed in wicked ways for close quarters work.
     
  7. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Head on swivel when in public!
    We both are armed but we also have a code word / phrase to alert for perceived cause for caution.
     
  8. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Sorry that I just now saw your question.
    My answer:
    I added the hook as a means of dragging objects back towards me. As a fireman, we use a tool called a HALLIGAN, it has a similar but larger hook. I patterned the hook after the usefulness of a Halligan.
    The hook extends my reach by five feet or more. Down in the water, or a tree limb, or even dragging a toolbox back from the front of the truckbed.
    I have a low water crossing on our property that gets clogged with limbs and river drift. I can reach down from the bridge and hook debris to clear the plugged culverts.
    20210203_104230.jpg
    My shovel rides in my pickup so its always nearby.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021 at 7:56 AM
  9. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    You did the right thing by letting that incident go, but my mind wonders whether that Bluetooth could be made to fit in that upstanding young man's rectum. Then he would have good use for his yellow Halligan.
     
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  10. Barry the Bear

    Barry the Bear Member

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    I grew up in the inner city, unconventional weapons were standard amongst the teens, by the time I was 14 I already had gotten jumped by 3 guys and ended up with a bloody nose and bruised ribs. You learn quickly that a wallet chain makes for an effective substitute to brass knuckles, or to strangle someone, or if it's long enough a makeshift mace. In the same vein a belt with a heavy buckle could also be used ward off "undesirables" another effective means of defense I've used is a piece of rebar I took from a construction site and put electrical tape for a crap grip. IWB carry wasnt uncomfortable. A fire extinguisher could also give a quick concussion or knockout when pulled off the wall in a school fight . this was years ago and I dont relish or find grandiose in those years or mindset but when you want to be left alone in an area where people want to know who you are and what you "represent" it makes for a very paranoid and observant attitude
     
  11. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I forgot about 2
    Not rebar but a piece of stainless wrapped in leather and a plastic ruler wth a sharpened edge.
     
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  12. sean m

    sean m Member

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    Breaker bar with a piece of pipe and a deep wall socket for my lugnuts. Easy to explain it being in the car.
     
  13. Ranger99

    Ranger99 Member

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    JMHO- if you're carrying something that's
    a regular tool or something that's been
    obviously modified for use as a weapon,
    you're just as well off to carry a firearm.
    It used to be here that ball bats with
    lanyards, pipes with an added grip such
    as a wrapping of tape, boards and sticks
    with nails or spikes, etc. etc. would get
    you in very serious trouble with the law.
    Anymore, I won't carry anything besides
    firearms that I couldn't abandon and not
    have to worry about retrieving it later.
    No $300.00 pocketknives etc.
     
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  14. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    Some of the unconventional weapons that I've had folks try to use on me include a hydraulic jack handle, a car tow bar, a "D" battery in a toque, a broken grape stake and a stripped crank off of a bicycle (thrown like a shuriken).
     
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  15. geologist

    geologist Member

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    24" of #3 case hardened chain and two padlocks. Separated you can take them anywhere in the world.

    Then read this guys book and train in his techniques. But wear a helmet. Seriously..........

    https://www.amazon.ca/Spike-Chain-Japanese-Fighting-Arts/dp/0804805407

    Spike and Chain; Japanese Fighting Arts Hardcover – June 1 1968
    by Charles V. Gruzanski
    • Publisher ‏ : ‎ Tuttle Pub (June 1 1968)
    • Language ‏ : ‎ English
    • ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 0804805407
    • ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0804805407
    41P1jA-9iyL._SX364_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
     
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  16. Ranger99

    Ranger99 Member

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    That'd probably be ok as long as you're
    riding a bicycle or motorcycle.
    The outlaw bikers around here carry that ^ ^
    setup, and it would garner extra scrutiny
    from law enforcement .
    It's still a decent thing in that you can
    toss it and not have to look back or boohoo
     
  17. shafter

    shafter Member

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    If you sit on the couch and look around the room, it's really quite crazy how many possible weapons you are surrounded by. There aren't many settings where you wouldn't be similarly surrounded by an armory of improvised weapons as well. With a little practice you start to see almost everything as a possible weapon or distraction tool.
     
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  18. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    But training with my wife’s antique tea pots and vases would get expensive. And I really like sleeping in our bed.
     
  19. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    I’ll tell you something a lot of people don’t think about. And that’s braided fishing line. 30lb braid will slice you to the bone without effort. Put it between 2 T-handles and you have a 12-24” string fillet knife.

    Have always been a fan of tire thumpers, car jack handles, and steel shaft golf clubs with the head snapped off.

    I didn’t know about the golf club until I was playing golf with my best friend one day when shanked a shot and out of frustration snapped the head off his club. It was around the 15th hole. As he’s walking by me I popped something off about him being a crappy golfer (he is actually a scratch golfer) and he just real quick slapped it across my upper left arm. It hurt so bad my arm felt like it was being burned. That was the end of my golf game that day. 2 holes later I was still hurting pretty bad and thought I could feel raised skin through my hoodie . He told me to stop being a (word I can’t use). I pulled my arm out of my hoodie. When he saw what my arm looked like, it wasn’t funny to him anymore. He drew blood. I know he didn’t mean for it to hurt that bad. He just meant to whack me and go on like friends do. But I would heal, and I learned something about golf I didn’t know.
     
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