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Understanding Florida's concealed carry law

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gonoles_1980, Jun 14, 2016.

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  1. gonoles_1980

    gonoles_1980 Member

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    This is one of the laws that is a little confusing.

    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

    If I go to outback, I can carry in the main eating area that's primary purpose is to serve food, but not at the bar. But can I sit at the tables in the bar area where I am eating. I have refused to take those area's to eat because it is close proximity to the bar (used other reasons of course) and is considered the bar area, you can just drink at those tables.

    What about a dance club or pool hall, they have a bar in it, but the majority of the club/hall is for dancing or playing pool. I can see where you can't hang around the bar area. But does the fact the club/hall only provide music/pool tables and liquor mean it's primarily devoted to the purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages? I'm going to guess the answer is you can't can't carry there.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  2. ford8nr

    ford8nr Member

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    My thoughts are if you're hanging around a 'bar area' are you drinking? Drinking and CC would be your bigger issue if there was an incident.
     
  3. emb

    emb Member

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    I think that as long as you're not sitting at the bar itself, you'll be ok. Also, you need to know that the BAC if you're carrying concealed is a lot lower. For DUI it's 8 and for concealed carry it's 5. That is not a lot of alcohol.
     
  4. shootstraight57

    shootstraight57 Member

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    emb is right! but for common sense I wouldn't drink at all. Just my 2 cents.
     
  5. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    EMB, you can be falling down drunk while carrying your gun.....just as long as it is not in your 'manual' possession............literally in your hand.......re read the statute.
     
  6. rodregier

    rodregier Member

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    In some jurisdictions the dividing line about purpose is what percentage of the revenue is derived from alcohol sales in that section of the building.
     
  7. ford8nr

    ford8nr Member

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    That may be legal in some states, but has got to be one of the stupidest comments I've ever read. :what:

    Sorry, as a RSO and Rifle Instructor I've gotta call it as I see it.
     
  8. 25-5
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    25-5 Contributing Member

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    I have never mixed alcohol and firearms. Over the decades I have done some foolish things, but never that.
     
  9. GAF

    GAF Member

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    In Wisconsin you can be in a bar carrying , but you are not suppose to drink and I would not.
     
  10. george burns

    george burns Member

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    Don't get caught over the legal limit when carrying a gun. If there is an incident you will spend a lot of time and money on lawyers defending you if you did something or not.
    In other words, leave your gun in the car or at home, or don't drink. I normally for 48 years go to any restaurant with my gun, I don't drink alcohol, and if I just have to for whatever reason, "like a birthday or wedding" I drink only one drink, and it's with dinner, in the area reserved for food, I never sit at a bar, even when waiting for a table if armed. **** happens and Murphy's law will bite you.
     
  11. emb

    emb Member

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    dogrunner, you're allowed to defend yourself with deadly force even if you're falling down drunk. But, if you are carrying concealed and out and about, your BAC may not exceed 5.
     
  12. sig228

    sig228 Member

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    Is this 8 vs 5 "rule" somewhere in Florida Statutes or is this something you just made up?
     
  13. Red Wind

    Red Wind Member

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    Nowhere in the Florida 790. 06 Statutes . It does not exist.
     
  14. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Ford8nr writes:

    Geez. Not even one response that attempts to answer the OP's question made it in before this did. :rolleyes:

    Florida does not address "drinking while carrying" in state law other than to prohibit the "use" of a firearm while under the influence, and even provides an exclusion to that prohibition for cases involving defense of life. There is no BAC level standard in the statute. Yes, you really can be "falling down drunk" while still carrying concealed. True, it sounds as stupid as you want to spin it to, but, apparently, the lack of firmer laws here is not an issue; we don't have a problem beyond that of any other state with licensed carriers getting drunk and shooting each other in bars.

    Here is the relevant Florida statute.

    For the OP: if the pool hall or other establishment exists primarily for the purpose of generating revenue through selling alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, then carry is prohibited.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  15. gonoles_1980

    gonoles_1980 Member

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    Thanks MedWheeler, that would be my guess. Another one that I think is clearer is the bowling alley, it has a bar, and people use the bar primarily for drinking. There is a an eating area near the bar that primarily serves food, the rest of the bowling alley is primarily for bowling. I assume I am ok as long as I stay away from the bar.

    I would have 1-2 beers with dinner, so I think I'm ok there. I guess I could leave the gun in safe storage in the car since my wife carries and she really doesn't drink.
     
  16. emb

    emb Member

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    Guys, you'll need to study this issue a bit more. Take a look at F.S. 790.153 that requires you to submit to breath test similar to DUI. F.S. 790.155 states that if there is a death or serious bodily injury, law enforcement may force you to give a blood sample. F.S. 790.157 states that if you BAC is less than .05, you are not presumed to be under the influence. Between .05 and .10, there isn't a presumption, but they can, and probably will, be able to show that your "normal faculties were impaired. .10 or more is conclusive. It gets a bit convoluted, but that is language of the Statutes.

    It's never a good idea to mix alcohol and guns. If you have a question as to whether you should be carrying a concealed weapon in a particular place, don't. As to the OP, it is very clear that if you are sitting at the bar, even if eating, you are in violation of the statute. As to "any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcohol" and "primarily devoted to such purpose", it gets a bit murky. There isn't any applicable case law interpretation. So, the statute means what it says. I'd error on the side of caution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  17. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    Well, EMB, my statement stands........read article #2 of the statute........you may not like it, but that statement of mine is LEGAL FACT!
     
  18. spitballer

    spitballer Member

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    Yes, especially if your questions are in regard to providing/hiring security for a specific establishment: consult an attorney. FL Concealed carry laws are complicated and they're not open to interpretation.
     
  19. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    rodregier said:
    Illinois bases their restrictions on "percentage" as well. Any restaurant that 51% + from liquor sales (for immediate consumption) is a GFZ. This includes VFW halls that have bars.
     
  20. Sebastian the Ibis
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    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    There is not a lot of authority regarding this. The only case I know of interpreting 790.06(12)(a)(12), is Jeancharles v. Augustus which deals with a parking lot. A sailor went to his car for a gun after his buddy was booted from the club. The police arrested him for carrying a concealed pistol back to the scuffle.

    The Judge reasoned that "Since Florida law only prohibits the (otherwise valid) carrying of a concealed weapon on portions of alcoholic-beverage-dispensing establishments that are primarily devoted to dispensing alcohol, then no reasonable person with the facts and circumstances known to Gibbons at the time of Andre's arrest [in a parking lot] would have believed that Andre was violating Florida Statute Section 790.06(12)(a)(12)."
     
  21. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    If there is no food, don't carry.
     
  22. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    EMB, the thread was started asking about the "letter of the law." The OP had not asked for personal opinion, such as advice to "error on the side of caution." Advice like that is for a different thread.

    True, after a shooting incident, the subject involved is required to submit to any requested test to determine BAC or the presence of illicit substances. This is for investigative purposes in determining the state(s) of mind of those involved (the person shot, even if deceased, is routinely tested as well.) If the shooting ends up not being found as lawfully-acceptable, then enforcement of a "use while under the influence" statute may be pursued.

    It is not for the enforcement of any "carrying/possession while drinking" statute, since no such statute exists.
     
  23. gonoles_1980

    gonoles_1980 Member

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    Thanks guys, I will continue to do as I have been doing. If I am in a place that has dancing and serves liquor, I'll either leave my gun safed in the car, or locked in a hotel safe if I have to be at an event where I will be staying overnight. I will assume anyplace that serves alcohol as over 50% of their business is not a place I can carry.
     
  24. Backroad

    Backroad Member

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    This is part of the Illinois CCW law as well. Without looking, it basically says that any establishment which derives 51% of its revenues from booze is off limits for CCW. I don't think its been tested in the courts as yet, but I suspect they will try to make it apply to say a TGI Fridays, regardless of whether you're in the bar or in the table area.

    My personal take is that its a lot to ask a CCW holder to know that kind of info. In some cases, its obvious; Mortons, for example, would be OK, but the Dirty Turtle would not. But those are extremes. There are lots of places on the borderline.

    al
     
  25. JSH1

    JSH1 Member

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    I think gonoles method makes the most sense. If a place sells alcohol it is a very good bet that the majority of their revenue comes for the sale of alcohol.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
     
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