Understanding The Ammo Shortage

[Alizard]

i didnt know Reagan was in office in 94.....oh yea, thats when he got in trouble for Watergate, right after he ended WW2 by dropping the bomb i believe..

Congrats on missing the entire point. Reagan was not president in 94, but he was the most powerful political force in action behind the AWB. Try all you want, you can't rewrite history. Without Reagan, the first AWB would have died.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ronald-reagan-helped-pass-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban/

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/how-ronald-reagan-passed-the-assault-weapon-ban

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-04-07/opinion/op-251_1_brady-bill-fred-romero-handgun-control

EDIT TO ADD:

Here's how close the vote was:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/817036/posts

The result was the bill passing by the narrowest of margins, with a vote count of 216 for the bill, 214 against and with 3 abstaining; it was numbered as one of the narrowest victories in legislative history.

The ludicrous notion that the "dem majority" in congress sailed he bill through is patently false. It would have died without strong lobbying from Reagan.

reagan may not have written the bill, but he is the midwife who helped deliver it.

It is also a myth to think the parties voted "straight line" on the AWB. According to this article:

voting patterns on the 1994 assault weapons ban in the House. In all, 64 House Democrats voted “Nay” on the omnibus crime bill, and most were Southern “Blue Dog” Democrats with high second dimension scores. Conversely, 46 House Republicans voted “Yea,”

A total of 46 republicans "crossed the line" and voted for it. Obviously, many would not have without the strong push from Reagan and the political cover his stance afforded them.

http://voteview.com/blog/?p=693

 

[Potatohead]

yea yea yea...just trying to have a little fun..it looked like thats what you were saying, the way it was written. i was pretty sure you knew who was in office in 94

 

[flyingfeathers]

the shortage was created by gluttonous Americans...just wait until there is a food scare...I am cynical...I think Americans would tear each other apart in a true crisis...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

the shortage was created by gluttonous Americans...just wait until there is a food scare...I am cynical...I think Americans would tear each other apart in a true crisis...

Of course. You can't cook your neighbor until you butcher him.

 

[offthepaper]

the shortage was created by gluttonous Americans...just wait until there is a food scare...I am cynical...I think Americans would tear each other apart in a true crisis...

i'm fairly sure the same folks who stocked up on ammo have a few cans of beans stashed somewhere, and a lot of other things as well.

 

[12many]

Good idea about beer. I don't really have a supply of that, well I did, but I drank it. I have a supply of vodka though just in case.

 

[Bruno2]

Seriously, where did you learn your history???? Your education is seriously lacking. If this is what they are teaching in high school these days, I understand how the Big O got elected...twice.

For the record, the GOP was not in power in 94--Bill Clinton was the President, and the Democrats had both houses of Congress. That is how the AWB passed.
Reagan's last year in office was '88. Okay, technically, his last day was Jan 19, 1989.

Your statements about the Supreme Court and the Heller decision display a similar (and equally dire) lack of knowledge. Next time, please do some homework and avoid embarrassing yourself.

Reagan signed the FOPA into law in 1986. That was the one that banned the manufacture and importation of machine guns for civilians. That's why the cost a fortune now because the only ones we are allowed to buy were made before 1986 and that number is dwindling. Reagan also called Bill Clinton begging for him to push an AWB while he was in office. Reagan was very anti gun just for the record. If you don't believe me look at what he did to CA while he was Governor there.

 

[justice06rr]

the shortage was created by gluttonous Americans...just wait until there is a food scare...I am cynical...I think Americans would tear each other apart in a true crisis...

We probably already see a small taste of this during disasters like hurricanes etc. People fighting over food/water and gas. I mean if you think Black Friday shopping is bad, people fighting over food and water is worse.

 

[benEzra]

There are two different kinds of 10 year supply stockers. The first are those that bought when prices were low in years past. The second (and the dumb ones who are helping the ammo crisis) are buying 9mm for $20 a box, and .223 @ $1 a round. They are the morons IMHO.

They are *not* morons if they are new to shooting, or new to 9mm's and .223's, or are new to the realization that guns are more than sporting implements, or new to the realization that the ammunition supply chain is far more fragile and limited in relation to demand than people realize.

If you have a good bit of ammo stashed away, then sure, buying more 9mm/.223 at $1/round may not make a lot of since from a ROI standpoint. But if you don't, then buying a couple hundred rounds of each at $1/round is entirely rational, if you have the cash to spare.

FWIW, there were countless posts prior to December 2012 calling other shooters "morons" and "idiots" for buying AR's and ammo at 2011-2012 prices. As it turns out, those weren't bad choices at all.

 

[PabloJ]

The "disappearing ammo phenomenon" has a huge psychological component to it, and it involves the way people react to a shortage (panic) and even how their long term behavior changes.

This is a true story I lived through and it illustrates how a shortage can be created even when none exists.... and why.

I started work at Fairchild Semiconductor three decades ago. There was a common equipment room where all the company electronics equipment was stored: oscilloscopes, signal generators, meters, etc. And as would be obvious, every piece of equipment had an AC power cord with it that plugged in the back and let you plug it in and use it.

One day, the idiot who ran the equipment room decided that the equipment should go on the shelves and the AC cords should hang on the wall.... but there were several different styles of AC cords (USA, european, non standard).

So each time somebody wandered into the equipment room and grabbed a piece of equipmenet, he had to hunt for a cord.

THE "SOLUTION":

People started keeping cords in their desks. So whenever they carried a piece of equipment back, they were "secure" in the knowledge they had the right cord and wouldn't have to search through the ones in the equipment room.

Instantly a shortage was created: every piece of equipment had a cord.... but now every engineer had five of them stockpiled in his desk. Within a short time, cords became scarce and everybody was complaining that we needed to buy more cords.... when in fact, there were plenty of cords.

The point is: anytime people's "equilibrium" is upset they react and often in stupid ways. In the case of the ammo shortage, people who used to keep a few boxes of ammo on hand are now scrambling to acquire thousands to keep and "feel secure". This means the demand for ammo has been suddenly (and artificially) increased well beyond the actual consumption level and the supply system in place is not sized to provide that much ammo.

You also have gougers buying up all the ammo they can to scalp it on Craig's list and make money which further increases demand.

The shortage is basically result of "primal instinct" born out of irrational fear. It's just like
vultures descending on carcass laying on Serengeti. One guy sees ammo and calls his buddies on cell phone and they descend and buy everything available. Some people actually have a psychiatric disorder hoarding in vast excess of what they really need These folks are just like people that have several hundred rolls of toilet pater and fifty sticks of deodorant they keep buying when it goes on sale at reduced price. That is actually a mental condition I do not remember the name of, but news programs show garages and basements with isles of merchandise just like back of local supermarket.

 

[GAF]

Seriously, where did you learn your history???? Your education is seriously lacking. If this is what they are teaching in high school these days, I understand how the Big O got elected...twice.

For the record, the GOP was not in power in 94--Bill Clinton was the President, and the Democrats had both houses of Congress. That is how the AWB passed.
Reagan's last year in office was '88. Okay, technically, his last day was Jan 19, 1989.

Your statements about the Supreme Court and the Heller decision display a similar (and equally dire) lack of knowledge. Next time, please do some homework and avoid embarrassing yourself.

Just in case someone needs a history lesson, but this thread is not about the links below.
In the last panic I was caught short on some calibers of ammo , but not this time and I did not go out and buy everything in sight.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Gun-Rights-Ronald-Reagan.htm

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ronald-reagan-helped-pass-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban/

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...obama/did-reagan-support-assault-weapons-ban/

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

We probably already see a small taste of this during disasters like hurricanes etc. People fighting over food/water and gas. I mean if you think Black Friday shopping is bad, people fighting over food and water is worse.

Another example happened when I lived in Hawaii and there would be talk of a shipping strike.
Toilet paper and rice would be the first items to rush out the door of the stores...

As for ammo, the local Wallyworld guy told me that folks are still going from store to store and buying up what gets put on the shelf. Yesterday they had 2 boxes of 32 ACP and one box of 38 Special hardball on the shelf. He told me the only reason the 38 was still around was because they found it on the floor under the counter. He is seriously considering expanding the knife display...

 

[Potatohead]

But if you don't, then buying a couple hundred rounds of each at $1/round is entirely rational, if you have the cash to spare.

amen brother

 

[Bone2bWild]

We here in this great country have always been used to everything we want being in abundance and logistically convenient so therefore we only stock everything very minimally and for the very short term. This ammo supply scenario is I'm afraid is just the first.
Imagine the chaos if/when the supermarkets will not be able to be stocked for a couple of weeks.

I know most stores receive shipments about 4 times a week and so popular items are only stocked on shelf for 2-5 days of supply. The back rooms are too small to hold much so it is a real threat if our transportation system ever goes down. You see it during winter storms when stores completely run out of Bread and milk or during big holiday times.

Now with ammo I'm afraid this hysteria will like last through Obamas remaining term. Ouch!


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[Potatohead]

i think Bone might be on to something. I think this thing is going to be sporadic at best during these last few years of his term

 

[mrvco]

Ammunition will start growing on trees when Sarah Palin gets elected president in 2016

 

[mac66]

The demand is fueled by both speculators and hoarders. I ran across an acquaintance who buys ever round of ammo he can find whether he has a gun in that caliber or not. He has spent thousands and thousands to stock up over the last few months simply because it is scarce. He has no intention to sell it, he is simply compelled to hoard it. I believe this guy with die someday with a basement stocked floor to ceiling with ammo that he will never use and his heir will turn over to the cops to get rid of it.

I also run across the speculators, as long as they can keep the supply low by buying everything they can, the prices will stay high and they make money.

I stocked up on ammo over the years whenever the prices have been low. I've not bought or sold one round of ammo since the panic On the other hand I've not shot much either since I can't yet replace what I have.

Stocking up during times of plenty is a good thing. Hoarding during times of famine to keep others from obtaining it is a bad thing.

 

[Highland Ranger]

I don't know that people hoard to keep others from obtaining. I think they're afraid there won't be enough for them.

On a related note, I think the gun and ammo buying frenzy has sent a message as strong or stronger than any message ever sent at a ballot box.

 

[itsa pain]

the gun and ammo frenzy has sent a strong message namely gun owners are their worst enemy

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think you're right. the purpose of gun control is not to keep guns out of the hands of criminals -- even the most brain-dead politician knows that's impossible. It's to keep guns out of the hands of citizens.

 

[itsa pain]

yes vern and gun owners have given the antis the ammo to use against us namely by repeating 40 million times only law abiding people should have guns. guess what the people that want your guns decide if you are law abiding. personally I do care if Charles manson buys a gun because he would never use it if everyone could get one without jumping thru hoops

 

[BSA1]

The "disappearing ammo phenomenon" has a huge psychological component to it, and it involves the way people react to a shortage (panic) and even how their long term behavior changes.

The point is: anytime people's "equilibrium" is upset they react and often in stupid ways.

So are you saying that concerns about why the DHS releasing a market survey asking companies if they are able to provide 2 million rounds of ammunition within a short time period as reported on DRUDGE REPORT is merely upsetting "people's equilibrium" and they are reacting in "stupid ways."

The shortage is basically result of "primal instinct" born out of irrational fear.

I guess it is obvious that your view of Obamas push for rational gun control is very different than millions of other Americans.

Or as a country boy let me share this true fact with you;

If you put a frog into a pan of hot water it will immediately jump out.
On the other hand if you put the same frog in a pan of cool water and slowly raise the temperature the fog will just sit there and cook to death.

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-seeks-millions-more-rounds-of-ammunition/