Underwood extreme defender

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by tightgroup tiger, Jun 24, 2018.

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  1. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/9mm-luger-plus-p-plus-90-grain-xtreme-defender?variant=7878320160825

    Has anyone tried this stuff.
    How is the accuracy out to 25yds?

    I heard it over penetrates being a solid but the video shows it is with in FBI specs.
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=underwood+extreme+defender&view=detail&mid=20C45261309B0DB4394A20C45261309B0DB4394A&FORM=VIRE
    The guy doing the video says it's trajectory path through the FBI ballistic gelatin spirals and tumbles. That's what has me worried for distances out to 25 yds.
    I'm wondering what these bullets do in free flight.
    If anyone has ever tried these at 25yds or further I'd love to know what the results were for accuracy.
     
  2. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    Been kinda wondering about it myself. But not serious enough to buy some to try in any medium as of yet. I think that the bullet is too new to have much real world data out there yet. So for now I'll stick with my Gold Dots and follow this thread.:cool:
     
  3. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    Other than the videos on the Lehigh bullet sight, I can't find any info that means anything so you are probably right.

    I prefer to be able to shoot with my personal defense ammo proficiently out to 25yds.

    And I'll stick with mine also but I don't think this thread will go any further.
     
  4. JeeperCreeper

    JeeperCreeper Member

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    I wanna say that IraqVeteran8888 on youtube has a video on it.... I wanna say he was using them in an AR 9mm pistol. But I could be wrong. I'll see if I can find it.

    Edit: I was wrong. It's in 45 acp. Here's a ton of videos on the lehigh and underwood extreme defender rounds







     
  5. Bottom Gun

    Bottom Gun Member

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    I’ve started carrying these Lehigh bullets in the field. After a couple of recent close encounters with black bear, I was looking for something that would give me better penetration than the Gold Dots I had been using.
    I realize these bullets are unproven in the real world but I figure they should at least perform as well as a hard cast while having the potential to perform much better if the ballistic gel videos are correct.

    I’m using them in 9MM and .357 Sig. I didn’t buy the Underwood loads. I bought the Lehigh bullets from Midway and loaded them to my specifications. I’m using both the Xtreme Defender and the Xtreme Penetrator bullets.

    So far, I have only tested them for accuracy and was pleased. I have found these bullets can be made to shoot quite well.
    I realize this doesn’t answer the OP’s question regarding accuracy of the Underwood loads but I thought it was encouraging to see that these bullets can be made to shoot as accurately as my other SD bullets.

    I would really like to hear from someone who has used these bullets in a hunting situation.
     
    Doindia likes this.
  6. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Accuracy with the xtreme defense and xtreme penetrator bullets that I have handloaded is excellent at 25 yards. As good as any hollow point bullet.
     
  7. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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  8. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    I would love a honest review of these
     
  9. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Forum member 5pins did one recently.
     
  10. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    So would I.
    That's more of what I wanted to know. Thank you for that. I may have to try these, it should be a good project for me.
    Where these 9mm?
    If they were what recipe were you using if you don't mind me asking?
     
  11. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cutting-edge-10mm-and-45-hg-solid-bullets.836144/

    The links 5pins includes take you off of THR, but they are worth the read, and at one point a Cutting Edge employee chimes in.

    Note that 5pins was using an older Delta Elite and was having pressure signs early with 10mm loads. Older Deltas had chamber support problems, and it seemed that getting these bullets up over 1100 fps was challenging in a 5" barrel. The gent using a 6" after market barrel had better results out of his Glock, as would be expected. However, it should be noted that the Cutting Edge employee that chimes in claims he was getting 52" of gel penetration with a 1100 fps velocity.

    I like the bullet profile and weight of the Cutting Edge. I am mostly interested in a bullet that will put some hurt on a big critter if need be. I'll be sharing my velocity data when I play with these bullets, and I did get some load data from Cutting Edge. I will be happy if I can get them up to 1150 fps out of my Sig P220 10mm.

    Sorry, not trying to derail the thread or change the cartridge being discussed.

    So, I've watched all the videos I could find on the Lehigh stuff, and done as much internet reading as I can. I was very interested in these bullets also. I think the assertion that these bullets should perform as well as hard cast is accurate when it comes to penetration. Barrier penetration seems to be where these bullets really shine. I believe that is true for the penetrators and the defenders.

    The gel tests are interesting, but I caution folks against putting too much stock in them. A living creature is a mish mash of different density tissues that can really change the way a bullet works. The fancy flutes on the Lehigh bullets are clearly creating some pressure differentials in the gel that is tearing gel blocks in an interesting pattern. However, until they become more wide spread in use, and there are some real world observations made by doctors, and hunters who examine wound characteristics, we will not have conclusive evidence that these bullets perform any differently than a hardcast.

    I'm not trying to poo poo these bullets or dissuade anyone from trying them. I have a few boxes of 10mm Penetrators from Underwood I'm going to try. I just want to caution folks on assuming gel tests mean anything truly relevant. Gel represents how a bullet may act, and it is of course no guarantee. Temporary cavitation and permanent wound channel in gel means little to me, because there isn't hair and bone and guts and all the other crap in a living body in those tests. That's why I like solid flat points. Performance seems less in question.

    These Lehigh bullets may be the cat's meow, but until I actually hear from someone who has used them on game, and observed a more than expected wound, I treat them as "likely effective" but not necessary for defense. Despite the fact that I carry whenever I can, I don't really see myself being involved in a situation where I need to shoot through walls, auto glass, or other serious barriers. SD shootings just don't really go down like that.

    I choose Federal HST +p ammo for my 9mm and 45 acp defense ammo because it seems an acceptable choice that is unlikely to over penetrate. For my 357s I use Speer 158 grain Gold Dots. For scary critters I want penetration, and tha means the Extreme Penetrators, in something bigger than 9mm, or a hard cast, or a copper solid with a wide meplate designed to penetrate deeply.

    That's just my own take on things. I hope folks who ever have to use these get good results, and if evidence shows effectiveness, I will likely change over. Hollow points are good, but can be inconsistent. Solid bullets are bound to be more consistent.
     
  12. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Yes, 9mm. I used Lehigh's load data with Power Pistol, 6.2 grains.
     
  13. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I actually did something I haven't done for years. I bought some factory ammo. I bought a box of Xtreme Defender in 90gr and Xtreme Penetrator in 115gr for 9 mm. This might be fun. Depending on what I think of these I may by the bullets and load my own.

    This is just for fun, maybe I'm getting board, but I haven't bought someone else's ammo for decades. That was strange for me.

    460 Shooter, I may try some of the Cutting Edge bullets also. I'm glad companies are developing new products to play with.

    Jeeper Creeper, I noticed in the videos that most of the hollowpoints and semi-jacketed bullets seemed to veer off after hitting the gel. The defenders and penetrators seemed to go straight even after going through a windshield first, then the gel. Doesn't mean much to me yet, but it is interesting.

    Thanks for the links and thank you all.

    When these get delivered I will have some playtime ahead of me. Fun Fun!
     
  14. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    If I buy some of the bullets from Lehigh I will try your recipe with Power Pistol and/or BE-86. BE-86 may be a better pairing with it for self defense because of the lower flash.
    But I'm just playing at this point.
    Thank you!
     
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