Unique and 230 gr Berry’s 45 ACP +P

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by jski, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. jski

    jski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Florida
    What’s a good Unique load for a 230 gr Berry’s bullet for a 45 ACP +P round?

    This is from Alliant’s website:

    45 Auto
    Bullet: Speer 230 gr CPRN
    Case: Federal 1.265
    PrImer: CCI 300
    Powder: Unique 7.3
    FPS: 966​
     
  2. Roverguy

    Roverguy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    130
    That load is skirting with the upper end of velocity prescribed by Berrys (975 fps max).

    I’m not sure what the negative event above 975 fps is supposed to be. Stripping of the plating seems unlikely. It is perhaps terminal performance, as Berrys “magnum” bullets are advertised to have thicker plating?

    In any event, you may want to work up to + P velocities rather dive right in.
     
  3. joneb

    joneb Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,218
    Location:
    Oregon
    I shy away from +P loads as I don't want to beat up a good gun.
     
    AJC1 and KYregular like this.
  4. jski

    jski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Florida
    From Berry’s website:
    • Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)
      • Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
      • Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.
     
    Skgreen and Walkalong like this.
  5. joneb

    joneb Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,218
    Location:
    Oregon
    For what barrel length?
    I get about 1000 fps with a 230gr from a 18" and 850 fps from a 5" in 45 acp.
    From a 18" barrel I get 1250 fps with a 185gr jhp.
     
    Soonerpesek likes this.
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    69,297
    Location:
    Alabama
    Doesn't matter, just the velocity.
     
  7. forrest r

    forrest r Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,097
    I don't use/shoot plated bullet. I've read posts and saw pictures that others have posted about plating failures. Never really could rap my head around the 1250fps max thing.

    As joneb already stated, what bbl length?
    So basically the pressure of the load doesn't matter, it's a velocity thing per Walkalong's post.

    That brings me the next thing I have a hard time understanding. So if it's a velocity thing then why doesn't a 1 in 10 twist have more affect on the plating then a 1 in 16 twist?
    90,000rpm's VS 56,000rpm's
    Both twists are at the 1250fps max, you'd think the extreme 90,000rpm's of the 1 in 10 twist bbl would have more of an affect on the plating.

    So basically a 20,000psi/1250fps 357mag load in a 20" bbl'd 1 in 38 twist marlin lever action (24,000rpm's/micro groove rifling) will max out the plating the same as a 35,000psi/1250fps 9mm load in a 5" bbl'd 1 in 10 twist semi-auto pistol (90,000rpm's/ballard rifling)
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  8. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Messages:
    5,188
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Plugging that data into QuickLoad, using the Speer bullet, 7.3grn Unique shows over +P max pressure. I'd be very careful working up to that.

    I have data from 2 different Speer manuals, for a standard 230grn .45ACP load, for example... the older one gives 6.9grn Unique as max, the newer edition gives 6.5grn as max. I have loaded that 6.9grn load, back in my hotrod days, it was a handful in a standard 5" government 1911. I can't imagine going to 7.3grn...
     
    merlynski likes this.
  9. Roverguy

    Roverguy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    130
    Also on Berrys website:

    “Recommended velocity: 825-975 fps.”

    So….
     
    Soonerpesek likes this.
  10. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,059
    I load a 200 grain coated swc with 7 grains and it is a full power load. I would start at 6 and work up with your plated 230s. 7.3 sounds like an awful lot.
     
  11. jski

    jski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Florida
    That’s directly from Alliant’s Unique recipes for 45 ACP.
    upload_2021-10-12_11-51-23.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    69,297
    Location:
    Alabama
    I would assume it matters just like lead, that they would have to be tough enough to hold the lands
     
    forrest r and GeoDudeFlorida like this.
  13. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    7,303
    Location:
    Southwestern Ohio
    Not sure why anyone would want to develop a +P load with a plated bullet….
     
    OhioShooter75 and GeoDudeFlorida like this.
  14. ballman6711

    ballman6711 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2019
    Messages:
    501
    Keep in mind that's a max load, and the OAL is 1.26". If you load shorter, pressure will be higher and your max load will be lower. And you should start 10% below that load and work your way up.

    Just my .02c

    chris
     
  15. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
    Charlie98 likes this.
  16. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    Omaha, NE


    Doesn't barrel length affect velocity, tho.....?
     
  17. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    Messages:
    3,841
    Well, the first assumption here is that Speer's CPRN and Berry's CPRN are identical or nearly so. That's probably a fairly safe assumption. "Probably"
    The second assumption is that Speer used a 5" 1911A1 to get their safe maximum load levels and that is not a safe assumption. Not at all.

    The only really safe assumption is they intend the reloader to follow their advice: "REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD."

    Your starting load is 6.6gr.
     
    AJC1 and wcwhitey like this.
  18. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,059
    All fine and well. WHat does it cost to start lower and work up? 20 or 30 extra test loads? Safety first.
     
    AJC1 and GeoDudeFlorida like this.
  19. kerreckt

    kerreckt Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    SE Virginia
    I load 6.5gr Unique with a 230fmj. Seems reasonable and shoots accurate with all my 45acp handguns.
     
  20. jski

    jski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Florida
    Of course guys, these Alliant recipes using Unique are for the 45 ACP and not the 45 ACP +P. And all Alliant recipes lean toward caution.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  21. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,513
    According to Berry's website, the .45 230 RN is rated for up to 1250 FPS.

    The Alliant load of 7.3 Unique is for a jacketed bullet. It probably is safe with plated/cast bullets, as far as pressure is concerned, but the velocity is liable to be quite a bit higher than advertised, which may be pretty hard on an auto. Alliant lists 5.8 grains with a cast 230 RN at 849 FPS. This probably is not a true SAAMI max but rather an effort to minimize leading.

    If I was desperate for a +P load with Unique and a Berry's bullet, I'd be inclined to start at six grains and work up until 950 FPS is achieved.
     
  22. KYregular

    KYregular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    647
    Personally, I'd shy away from plus p if your just going for target practice, thats a recipe for premature wear. Berrys plated are typically good for 1250 as well. As far as some have said about plated bullets not being good, I've loaded and shot MANY thousand with no issue. And, if your shooting steel even remotely close, plated or PC lead is far better from a safety standpoint that jacketed.
     
  23. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,474
    6.5 Grains of Unique, 230 RNL or Plated, standard 830 FPS work great. My go to for years.
     
  24. forrest r

    forrest r Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,097
    This is why I posted what I did.

    You have a vast knowledge base with bullets I've only read about. Hence my asking what I see and don't understand about the makeup and use of the plated bullets.

    Still don't get it but I will never use a plated bullet in my life time either.

    I wound not even begin to question what you know/wrote and take what you said as fact. Your knowledge only opened up another question about plated bullets.

    I apologize to the op, this has nothing to do with his 7.3gr unique/230gr plated bullet load.

    Myself I'd stay clear of a p+ unique/45acp load. Darn powder been around for +/- 100years and there's still no clear data by any mfg on what a p+ unique load is. That's called a clue.

    IMHO:
    Alliant is blowing smoke with their 230gr speer plated bullet/7.3gr data. Why isn't anyone else getting that fps out of their unique/bullet testing?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  25. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Messages:
    5,188
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Once I came off that crazy 6.9grn load, I've been loading 6.5grn Unique under any 230grn bullet... for about 25 years or so.

    I had to go back and pull that data up to see for myself... I can't believe it... but you are right, that is standard .45 ACP data. Personally, I think it's insane, or a misprint... it BELONGS in the +P section.

    I plugged it into QuickLoad... 7.3grn Unique under a 230grn Speer TMJ bullet, seated at 1.265" as per the Speer data, shows a peak pressure of about 26500psi.


    No, the Speer CPRN is copper plated round nose... I would not make the assumption that the plating thickness is the same as Berry's or any other bullet... I've loaded that bullet, and they are pretty tough compared to Berry's, which I've also loaded.
     
    wcwhitey and .38 Special like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice