Unique and 230 gr Berry’s 45 ACP +P

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by jski, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Well of course, but it's the velocity that matters.

    You can't hurt the Berrys 230 RN in .45 ACP even at +P pressures.
     
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  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    And I get that, some folks just don't like them. I turned to them for plinking way back when they cost just a little bit more than lead, were accurate enough to suit my purpose(s), and I didn't have to worry about lead levels (Long story) Nowadays some jacketed bullets are cheaper than plated, and coated has taken the slightly more than lead catagory, although just like plated before them, are widening that gap.

    I love your posts on lead/coated lead bullets, very informative.

    I like coated for some applications, still use jacketed for some applications, and still use some old favorite loads with plated bullets. I guess I am using more coated bullets than anything else.

    I have no interest in +P .45 ACP loads, but I have shot a lot of various plated 230 Gr RN bullets at 700 to 850 FPS in .45 ACP. There was a time I would drop 5.0 Grs of W-231 from the old 3 Lb steel cans and load any lead, plated, or jacketed bullet I had from 200 to 250 (leftover Ranier plated .45 Colt bullets, think I still have some) Gr bullets. (Not that I am recommending that)
     

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  3. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    I just love 5.0 gr of 231/HP-38 under a 230 grain Berry’s or XTreme for my .45 ACP range loads.
     
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  4. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    Now I'm confused......:thumbdown:
     
  5. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    Disregard the above post.......I think me outhunk myself.....o_O
     
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  6. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Just FYI, I've look through four reloading manuals (Hornady, Speer, Lyman 50th, and Lyman Cast 4th edit.) There's no data for any kind of 230gr bullet in .45ACP with Unique that is over 6.6gr.

    If you're dead set on the Alliant data, approach it with caution.
     
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  7. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    Speer #11 top, Speer #14 bottom...

    It's interesting to note, #11 uses a Colt Government 5" and says pressures do not exceed 19,900 CUP, #14 uses a 4.4" SIG P220, and pressures don't exceed 21,000 PSI... so I'm thinking with the new testing, they ratcheted down the load. Further, that was about the time 'new and improved' Unique showed up, and while they say they are the same, nothing is ever the same. Just my .02 worth.

    YnA4N9gl.jpg

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  8. v8stang289

    v8stang289 Member

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    The QuickLoad data Charlie98 posted is getting into 45Super pressures, which likely wont cause any catastrophic incidents in fully supported 45acp barrel, but will probably beat up the gun.
    So I'd definitely approach that with caution
    I use Power Pistol in my more stout woods carry 45 loads, but anything above published ACP loads are in Super brass and only fired in my 625 or G21 with storm lake barrel and 21lb spring.
     
  9. jski

    jski Member

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    So the consensus is Alliant is posting questionable reloading data on their website?
     
  10. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I don't know if that the consensus, but I do know that I'm questioning it.
     
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  11. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    That's what it looks like from the responses in this thread.

    Only use published data - unless they say not to. The internet is awesome.
     
  12. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    That's why it's always a good idea to cross reference any load data, or data that is on the edge... like +P data, the OP's original question. We live in the age of information, but that doesn't mean ALL information is correct, to include printed information, and hoary internet lore.

    As V8stang mentions, the Alliant data for that bullet does not make sense, according to QuickLoad... and I've run that setup about 10 different ways trying to get a reasonable answer... and I can't. I also temper my comments with direct experience loading .45ACP with Unique... I've been doing it for 35 years with thousands of rounds. Unique is a very forgiving powder... but not at 7.3grn under a 230grn bullet.
     
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  13. v8stang289

    v8stang289 Member

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    Questionable to me at least.
    I would hope everything they have is pressure tested and proofread, but it does seem suspect that their max is 11% more than what nearly every other source says.
    6.5-6.6 max seems to be where the others end up.

    You could reach out to Alliant directly and see if they can confirm the load data/test results?

    I do wonder if there's something about that particular bullet that builds less pressure though, as their Bullseye and Power Pistol max loads are higher than I would expect as well.
    The max Power Pistol load is one I'm using for 45Super with a 230xtp
     
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  14. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Soft bullets & hot loads dont mix very well. The slide tends to batter the frame up. I've had it happen on an Auto ordnance 1911. The frame got so peened up I could not pull the slide off. After several hours of fooling with it, I used a hydrulic press to push the side off. The rails were badly galled & the forward end of the frame swelled larger then the slide rails. It took quite a bit of filing & stoning to restore it. Soft bullets have less friction in the bore, thus higher slide velocity. They are best loaded to the minimum requirement for function.
     
  15. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    More likely higher slide velocity results from softer bullet deforming/expanding bullet base quicker to seal with the barrel to produce higher chamber pressures. ;)

    Yes, I agree that lower powder charges should be considered for softer bullets.

    I use 4.8-5.0 gr of W231/HP-38 with 18 BHN MBC 200 gr SWC but with softer 12 BHN 200 gr SWC, even a light powder charge of 4.0 gr Red Dot/Promo works well to produce accurate target load.
     
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  16. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    I had not thought of that. You might be right.
     
  17. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Well, now, firstly, Alliant says straight up to back off 10% of their published data to get a starting load.
    Second, Speer and Alliant are disagreeing, and there's nothing new about that. Is Alliant questionable or is Speer? And, you're using Speer data for a Berry's bullet. IF it's a safe assumption the two bullets are similar enough to do that, and I suspect but don't know for certain it is, whose data do you use? The bullet maker who didn't make the bullet you're using or the powder maker who didn't test the bullet you're using?
    Thirdly, comparing plated to plated is always good IF you have identical or nearly so bullets but the typical road is to compare plated to cast - or coated - because they're both thin compared to jackets and what the barrel is seeing is more like lead than jacketed.
    Fourthly and lastly, that Alliant 7.3gr. load is a little "hot" at 966fps. That's pretty quick for a 230gr. RN in a .45ACP. The milspec is 830fps (TM-9-1005-211-34) from a 230gr. FMJ. It's been getting the job done just fine for 110 years.

    But, why argue when it's your gun and your safety? Load it up to 7.3gr starting. Shoot a ladder. What could go wrong?
     
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  18. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

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    Speer has done it quite a few times with the Gold Dot...
     
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  19. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Yes, not all plated bullets are created equal.

    Gilding metal used for jacketing is die formed from punched discs to around .015"+ in thickness. Speer Gold Dot HP and TMJ bullets are "thick plated" to around .015" for TMJ and .018" for GDHP (as far as I know) and can be driven to jacketed+ load data because copper "jacketing/plating" cannot separate from the lead core due to "molecular bonding" from plating process especially during expansion - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/plated-bullet-differences-mythbusting-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195
     
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  20. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    That kinda sums up the theme of the thread.
     
  21. jski

    jski Member

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    I contacted Alliant via their website asking:
    They responded:
    I specified I intended to use Berry’s 230 grain plated RN bullets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
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  22. joneb

    joneb Member

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    I'm glad to know someone is thinking about bullet rotation.
     
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