Unique - they named it right

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Howa 9700

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Was considering pulling my sample of Unique out of the stash to try loading in 9mm. Case fill close to 100% and does not leak thru the Lee PPM.

But then weighed a sample from my stash using one of my Lee dippers as a measure, and weight compared to the VMD chart wasn't even close. Got to checking and apparently Unique is notorious for having a lot of variation in weight per volume from lot to lot. So each lot is indeed......Unique?

But out of curiosity, to anyone who has some Unique laying around, what weights do you get using any of the Lee dippers? I used the 2.2 cc.

I'm curious if what I have is so far off the reservation it's not to be trusted.
 
That’s why we load by weight! You should always confirm a volumetric measure to match a given weight when starting with a new lot of powder. Always.

Looks like you’ll need to select a different dipper (or make your own).

Or… just set up your PPM to consistently throw the weight you require.
 
Also, are you using the  dipper as
a  scoop, which they are not, or are
you dipping in the fashion that
Richard Lee says to in the books?
There's a good many on yoofloob
that use the dippers as if they
were scooping ice cream which
is totally wrong
Powder measures allow powder to
flow into the drum cavity with gravity
and don't pack it in as when people
use the dippers as scoops
 
I also "mix" any powder I'm about
to use ( turn the container over and
over end over end a dozen times)
Any broken pieces, or smaller granules
will be distributed throughout instead
of concentrated in one part of the
container
( probably a totally useless and
irrelevant practice, but I've done it
with BP ever since I started using
those decades ago)
 
That's a good idea about mixing the powder, I didn't think about powder settling , have the lee dippers but when I start loading I'll be weighing the load with balance scales or digital scales
 
Yes, just used the 2.2 cc dipper as a sample from the dipper set to compare what my Unique weighs vs. what Lee printed in the book. I pour powder out into a shallow plastic cup, then use a larger dipper to pour into the smaller one I'm using, then use a business card scribe it off. So loose fill scribbed off.

Lee also makes specific mention of Unique powder variability as relates to one of it's measures, as apparently they got a lot of complaints about what got dropped vs. VMD factor in the Lee book.

I really don't care about the volume differences......and am not using a dipper for these loads as none of the dippers work out to drop the amount of powder I'm using. Wish they did, when using the Lee PPM with some of these really fine powders, both of my PPM's will leak powder. Super accurate and repeatable with them, but leak. Have used the graphite trick and found no joy. May try lapping it with JB Bore paste or some such thing to see if that helps, but not that motivated yet.

But this is not about that. What I'm wondering is what weight others are getting with their samples of Unique. If what I have is way off the mark, I won't use it.
 
FWIW, I use the Lee dippers a LOT, and not just for Unique, and they are NEVER close to what the slide rule says it's supposed to be. Generally, it's one size up or down, but it's a rare occasion where it's even close to the guide.

FWIW #2... Unique is not that sensitive to reasonable variations in charge weight, assuming you are not on the ragged edge of data... that's one of the unique things about Unique. The one caveat I have to that is small cases (like the 9mm) at max data. I use Unique as my 9mm powder, but I always reset my powder drop based on drop weight... not volume.
 
Here is what I have in my notes : With Unique powder and the following technique :
scoop a full mounded scoop / settle by tapping the handle on the cup rim / scoop again to fill and mound the top / level with a business card , gently drag the card edge across the top to level it off.
Now weigh or place charge in case . all my dippers are Lee , yellow plastic and marked in cc's except one old black plastic dipper which says 039 it came in a old Lee Loader Kit .

Lee .3cc yellow dipper - 2.8 grs. Unique
Lee .5cc " " - 4.4 grs. Unique
Lee #039 black plastic dipper - 5.8 grs. Unique
Lee .7cc yellow dipper - 6.5 grs . Unique
Lee 1.0cc " " - 9.0 grs. Unique
Lee 1.3cc " " - 11.5 grs . Unique

Your dipping technique can vary the weight of the powder a lot ... what people don't realize is how important and how much you can vary the charge by the technique you use .
Dip up a dipper full and , level it and weigh it and it will be much lighter than if you settle the powder .
I think the problem is Unique is "flakey" ... and flake powders are just hard to measure / scoop / dip ...
you have to develop a good technique and repeat it every time for consistent results .
And , let me add ... you need to weigh on a scale to determine exactly what the weight of your dipped / scooped charge is ...and Be Consistent with your technique .
Dipped / scooped charges can be extremely accurate and are a very safe way to charge a case ... you can see the powder going in the case with your eyeballs ... you can see the level .
Gary
 
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I have the scoops as a back up and have never used them.

I meter Unique through the RCBS Little Dandy mounted on top of Redding T7s. I have never had a problem getting uniform drops using that process as the motion of the turret head and ball detent settle the powder/eliminate voids.

Been using that system for almost a decade for .357/.44 Mag and .45 Colt.
 
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Started my reloading back eons with .357 and a Classic Lee Handloader. Came with one scoop. My next addition was a set of scoops because I wanted more bang. I
I was buying Unique because that’s what was available. I loaded a pile of rounds with those scoops and the “struck method” with the slide rule without a scale backup. Heck, folks were hunting with rifle ammo loaded using scoops.

My guardian angel was undoubtedly doing happy backflips when I got around to a scale.

Richard Lee was a cantankerous cuss, but he had a system that worked. No, I will NOT give up my scales!
 
I have used dippers, Lee and home made quite a bit. I have found one can vary weights from varying dipping methods to vary as much as a full grain. Push dipper backward into the powder and strike level, push forward through powder and shake, push forward twice, strike or shake. All these will weigh different. One must develop a method that they can do the same way every dip (speed, force, angles, etc.). I have always dip charged in conjunction with a beam scale. Once I got on a roll with consistent dips, I could get by safely weighing every other or every third dip...
 
Smokeless is by weight; blackpowder is by volume.

BP CAN be by weight, IF you weigh the correct volume of BP first.
 
Was considering pulling my sample of Unique out of the stash to try loading in 9mm. Case fill close to 100% and does not leak thru the Lee PPM.

But then weighed a sample from my stash using one of my Lee dippers as a measure, and weight compared to the VMD chart wasn't even close. Got to checking and apparently Unique is notorious for having a lot of variation in weight per volume from lot to lot. So each lot is indeed......Unique?

But out of curiosity, to anyone who has some Unique laying around, what weights do you get using any of the Lee dippers? I used the 2.2 cc.

I'm curious if what I have is so far off the reservation it's not to be trusted.

For safety purposes, the VMD charts yield the charge for batches that are at the maximum density of the powders. Lee says they vary by as much as 16%. You will get lighter charges in most cases if you use the charts This is not explained clearly in LEEs instructions and therefore many consider VMD "useless".

You need to know what the VMD for that particular container is. VMD is a marketing term. We are really talking about specific volume, which is the inverse of specifric gravity (density).

You can make your own chart through trial and error. Not to hard to do with the dippers. But considering the Pro Autodisk has 24 cavities... well, knock yourself out if you wish.

Better to use this method.

https://support.leeprecision.net/en...ng any,(cc) of a single grain of powder (VMD)

Here is how I use VMD:

To pick the correct dipper size

VMD is of the greatest use when dealing with fixed cavity measuring devices such as dippers that have a known volume, such as LEE dippers or the Pro Autodisk. It allows you to avoid using trial and error to pick the correct dipper.

Using it to select the correct cavity size on the Pro Autodisk

For the dippers, trial and error may not be that big a deal, but I find changing cavity size with the Autodisk tedious. You have to empty the hopper, disassemble the measure, change the cavity, reassemble the measure, and refill the hopper each time you change cavity size. I have seen guys on YouTube go through three or four cavities (griping about those “worthless” charts the whole time) before getting the right cavity size.

Using it to set the volume setting of the powder drum before installing it in the Autodrum.

It can also save some time if you are using measure with an adjustable drum like the Pro Autodrum. Use it to select the nearest dipper size and then follow the method in LEE’s instructions for setting the drum before you insert it into the measure. It will get you close enough to make dialing in the exact charge easy.

Determine the % of case capacity filled by a charge

When loading for pistols I like to use a powder that fills enough of the case to make double charge is obvious. Again, you can do this by trial and error, but it’s a whole lot easier to punch a calculator.
 
And theirin lies the beauty of dippers. To make them constant from user to user the technique is simple.

Dip into the powder and lift, strike level with a card.

Doesn't matter where you are or who you are, the result will be the similar.
 
Unique is a favorite of mine for pistol rounds but I find it a bit iffy loading with a mechanical powder measure. I made up a dipper set up,one for each of my main pistol loads and a hopper made from an old aluminum cup angled in a cradle. Push the required dipper into the powder,tap once,dip again and level off on the wire. It might be just the batch of unique I'm using but when I check the weight on my 505 it is spot on
 

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Unique is a favorite of mine for pistol rounds but I find it a bit iffy loading with a mechanical powder measure. I made up a dipper set up,one for each of my main pistol loads and a hopper made from an old aluminum cup angled in a cradle. Push the required dipper into the powder,tap once,dip again and level off on the wire. It might be just the batch of unique I'm using but when I check the weight on my 505 it is spot on
My Favorite for .45acp to 9mm. Yes it's harder than ball powder to measure exact every time, but dippers are too slow for me, as I do most of my loading on a progressive. But you know what? Unique is not touchy about exactness. I measure weight a half dozon times, set for the middle, and load away. I have NEVER been able to see variations on the target. Guess that's why I like it so much.....very forgiving about perfection.....for me that's pert near perfection, for a powder.
 
Never thought of it that way, But you are absolutely correct.

It took me many, many years to understand that. A volumetric measure (drop,) however, is far more... what's the word I'm looking for... repeatable? reliable? 'Statistically repetitive?' ...than hand dippers. Aside from the weight of the powder in the hopper, the volumetric measure sees the same input forces, if you will, than any hand dipper, and I consider it far more reliable than my dipper set.
 
Appreciate all the responses. Very good information on both Lee dippers and Unique. Unfortunately, none of them really addressed my actual question, which was if you have the Lee dippers and a sample of Unique, what weight do you get when you weigh it? I am getting 18.2 grains. Book says 2.2 cc dipper should be 20.1 grains Unique. So I'm under.........but based on comments about Unique, that may not be as much as I thought. But if my sample is in the normal range, then I'm good to go and can start testing some loads with it.

BTW, I weigh mine as described below.......which is how Richard Lee said to do it. It is not a scoop. It is a back fill / loose fill process, which in my mind is exact same way a powder measure like the PPM does it, and as such, gives the most consistent drop, charge after charge.

And theirin lies the beauty of dippers. To make them constant from user to user the technique is simple.

Dip into the powder and lift, strike level with a card.

Doesn't matter where you are or who you are, the result will be the similar.
 
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