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'unnofficial Walker/Dragoon LRE club

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by AussieTH, Jul 8, 2009.

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  1. Ratdog68

    Ratdog68 Member

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    Where 'bouts in Alaska? I spent 14 winters up there... 7 of those were above the Arctic Circle... longest 36yrs. of my life (those winters). LOL
     
  2. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    The LRE Stock Attachment Pic's

    OK boy's, here's what's going on in the LRE project from my end.
    1. This is a pic of my Walker laid up against the stock from an 1860, w/ a wax mock up of the new adaptor to connect the 2.
    http://www.fmtc.com/~tfl1x/WalkerWax1.jpg
    2. Pic of the wax so far....lot's left to do!!!
    http://www.fmtc.com/~tfl1x/WalkerWax2.jpg
    3. Comparison of original and what's in progress.
    http://www.fmtc.com/~tfl1x/WalkerWax4.jpg
    4. This pic shows where the 2 screws on each side are to be placed (in the dips), so that we have a 3 point stance on the stock (2 on the receiver on either side), with one on the base of the grip for security without having to modify the existing recoil shield.
    http://www.fmtc.com/~tfl1x/WalkerWax5.jpg
    Ok, so that's where we stand....somewhat shy of procrastination, but definitely not "Giddeyup" speed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  3. GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL

    GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL Member.

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    Thank you much. Appreciate the links. Look's alright....
     
  4. Ratdog68

    Ratdog68 Member

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    sltm1... that's lookin' nice ! Keep up the good work, and thank you for sharing the pix with the rest of us.
     
  5. Das Jaeger

    Das Jaeger member

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    I want mine

    in German Silver , no yellow brass , how about it ?
    Darn I am picky aitn I . :D
    Nice work , keep her up , thanks for keepin us posted . Thats sure gonna mess up my grips huh ? Yup , gonna have to make a beater pair .

    Das Jeager :)
     
  6. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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  7. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    Alignment

    Oyeboten, I understand what you're pointing out, remember, these 3 pieces are merely laid together for the picture and nothing is a perfect fit yet. Also, the green wax bar at the bottom is supposed to be inside the wood, not showing at all. First we fit....then we diddle. Right now the important thing I need to get right is the height of the stock so the the sights are properly positioned to use.
    Das Jaeger, I haven't set up with the caster yet so I'm not sure on the possible metal and color options.
     
  8. AussieTH

    AussieTH Member

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    Oyeboten. Doubtless Roland will be back shortly to give his reasons.

    My first impression when I got these images in yesterday was that I much preferred the 'flowing lines' of the original factory 'coupling'. But as sltm1 pointed out - if you do this then you cannot actually look along the sights.

    Having slept on it and come back to it I see another possible advantage. The revised arrangement gives much more room for the hands and forearms to get a good grip but stay well clear of the cylinder etc.

    I would like to really thank Roland for posting. We are moving along well now and I want to make sure that all of you good folk are kept in the picture of how we are travelling. After all this is really a 'THR Project' - not just ours.

    Another point is the only stock I could get hold of was for an 1860 Army and that revolver sits in a different position to the Walker currently in use. I am subsequently buying another five stocks but Roland will have to modify each the same way - but it will help once we can get the moulds done and just be churning them out.

    I do not think it will be long before Roland has one of these out on the range and is banging away with it!

    Aye

    Tony
     
  9. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    Grips

    Das, It shouldn't mess up the grips at all. It'll be resting primarily on the receiver, the back strap and he base of the handle. The inside could be lined with thin felt to protect the wood.
     
  10. Ratdog68

    Ratdog68 Member

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    M'be some smooth glove leather... nice and thin.
     
  11. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    By the way, this is only about 75% finished so there will still be many modificatiions (like removing the extra knob on the bottom of the wax). Also, I can't actually force fit the pieces together, as the wax has to be over sized for shrinkage when cast and molded.
     
  12. Ginormous

    Ginormous Member

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    Can I get that in an aged patina? :D
     
  13. Das Jaeger

    Das Jaeger member

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    Any sort of matching stock

    is going to have to be done by a skilled stock maker . If someone were to want this project to have matching woods , there is only one way to do that , and its darn expensive . :D Then stock finish ? Hmmm , hand rubbed oils , hmm , spendy again . One peice fit grips , hmmm , spendy again . Installing a metal recoil pad and hand fitting the attatchment you come up
    with to fit revolver well , hmm , spendy again . 99% out of the realm of what most people could or would ever afford to pay .
    Just sometin that got me thinkin is all ?
    I doubt the generic woods your going to get from Dixe are gonna cut it for most of the people wanting one of these , especailly with Uberti Orange finish on them . Not without refinishing them for certain .
    Just thinkin out loud at 3:eek:o A.M West coast USA time .
    I see it as a major obstacle trying to use pre-exhisting mediocre stocks for this high end project , and thats what it is is , high end custom guns , because you cant build these cheap . Thatsa fact jack m Jill . :D
    The barrel set-up alone is going to be outstadingly expensive , am sure . WHo's blueing these babies up anyway ? Your not gonna get allot of takers in the White I doubt .
    Thinkin out loud :uhoh:

    Das Jaeger , not trying to be the pesimist , but lookin at my reality $$$$$$ , realistically . :D:banghead:
     
  14. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    'Semi-Finished' Castings and Wood...


    Let the purchaser/end-user complete as they see fit...
     
  15. Das Jaeger

    Das Jaeger member

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    Thats an idea

    that could be fondled and thought about for sure . :)
    Limits the sell to only talented people though . It could be an option though for sure to offer that option though .
    I am thinkin you guys have no real idea what it costs or what time it takes to build guns though , let alone trying to break even on cost . You'll be workin for free , trust me . :D

    Das Jaeger :)
     
  16. Ginormous

    Ginormous Member

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    If historically innovative projects of the past were guided by your premises, little to nothing would have changed in the human condition, and we'd still be launching spears at game animals with the atlatl. Sometimes people do things, just because they can. :D
     
  17. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    AussieTH,

    Here's mine,

    2ndDragoon002Small.gif

    Built in 1965 and imported by Replica Arms, Marietta, Ohio.

    Three digit serial number.

    She's old and seen some use but still dependable.

    I designed a rifle around this frame. Fixed stock, 20" barrel, built it and sold it. No pictures but too heavy for what it offered.

    There was also a Springfield Model 1855 single shot pistol with a detachable stock. It was known as a Dragoon Pistol, and a bunch of European pistols carried the name of Dragoon. If Colt used it, he certainly was alone in it's use.
     
  18. Das Jaeger

    Das Jaeger member

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    Ginormous

    I aint sayin it can't or shoudln't be done did I ? Tis just not going to make money unless you have machines turning this stuff out. People are too cheap , everyone wants sometin for nuttin .
    Its obvious they are doing it for the love of the guns , duh . :D :what::banghead:
    Did I say DON'T do it ? No I did not . I just wanted to make clear there aint no money in it , thats all .
    My Premises are sound , not everyone can afoord guns like this . Actaully its such a tight market too for people that would even want one ? It isn't like tis a practicle gun you know, or one that you'd really want to be putting 60 grains of 2FF and lighting it off in your face without a welders helmet on either . Its a NICHE' gun fora particular Niche' of people , and it isn't even close to authentic at this point yet or ever , so that even makes it less desireable to the general Niche' .
    Hey I am just bein real here , sorry you don't like it . But I never said don't do it . :D
    Heck man, I do this to all my guns , I just want them to be aware of certain things as they go forward , been there done this , do this . I commend them for trying too , its a daunting task indeed, especially the trying to make it affordable to the people whom would buy it , and to make it nice enough to want to buy .

    Das Jaeger
     
  19. GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL

    GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL Member.

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    I see where you're going. I went to the links and studied them and I see what you have in mind. Go ahead. Just fit it all together sir. Take your time. Make it strong and solid, and dependable and accurate. If so then I'll buy a couple just like I said. If I have to I (and maybe my son) can spend one day and get the wood Tru-oiled down and looking good and blue the metal parts. Go to the Walker club and search around and you'll find pictures of my Walker and I think one of my K-Bar. I think I'vd got photographs scattered here and there all through the Club. Hell, might even be a picture of the 1st Model in there somewhere. Used to be anyway but I might have pulled it down. Study them. I think you'll see I know how to blue. (to my own satisfaction anyway) If that boy of mine think's he can do a better job then he and his wife can have at it. (dosen't mean I want to buy a couple completely in the white although if push come to shove and everything else being equal I would if that's what was called for)...I think you're doing alright, especially considering that ya'll conceived and started this project from somewhere around minus zero point s***.Thank's again for the links and have a good day, sir....
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  20. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    Das, Jaeger, I think your points are well made....however, we, bp shooter's, are supporting a niche industry already and you are one of it's staunchest supporters judging from your collection. The LRE isn't going to be for everyone, but instead of buying several more off the shelf reproductions, wouldn't there be a class of people looking for something unique? Breaking even and owning something totally in a class by it'self is pretty good payback don'tchathink? As far as 60g of fff going of in my face, I'm going to get a conversion cylinder for mine and that won't be an issue.
     
  21. Das Jaeger

    Das Jaeger member

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    I agree Sltm1

    it is for the few , and the elite that realy MUST have one , die hards if you will . :D
    Maybe I am being too negative sounding today ? I will watch that in myself . I just got a littlel overwhelmed after I got the e-mail of the task at hand last night from you guys of this project , I had to sit down, write down actual hours and costs as I see it , and its daunting , too me .
    I actualy wish Uberti or Pietta would make a special run of 100 barrelled front ends , milled on the Dragoon 3rd model for us ?
    I just cannot imagine the time involed milling a front end barrel of the 3rd or
    2nd or 1st Model and jsut how much time and effort that tis going to take ?
    Making those fit the Ubeerti Dragoons is going to be an art and lesson in itself .
    What is your plan on that, and who do you have doing them,a nd what is your barrel made from, specs, everyhting , I would love to know more ?
    I wish Val was still alive, I would call him and at least ask if he could do the production run for us , but his son is no Val Sr.
    Dont like bad mouthing folks, but that company aint what it used to be thats for sure . I am sure Val Jr. is a great guy and all , but Val Sr. LOVED his guns .
    He would be very into probably running that run for nothing to littel just cost thats how much he loved this sport . Crap ! :cuss:

    Das Jaeger, oplogize to everyone if I sounded down about it, I am not down about it, I am just looking at my view of it today , and am overwhelmed with costs and time at present about it > Without some major sponsorship from a BIG gunmaker or someone that tis retired and has nothing better to do . :confused:






    .
     
  22. AussieTH

    AussieTH Member

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    Some Reply Comments

    Hmmm!! Das Jegear – I am not taking issue with you because your points are valid – but are they? That depends a lot on the perspective point of origin. Your point of origin is one of experience and hands on knowledge – so should be heeded.

    I have said repeatedly now that this is not a money making project but neither is it a charity of some form. I will be happy to break even. Not everyone can be involved in that sort of thing and like, apparently yourself, personal circumstances may not allow the time away from money making ventures, family commitments etc. That is fair enough.

    My perspective point of origin is much as Ginormous expressed – some people do things because they can. That is what I do and have done so most of my life. I take on things that others say are impossible and complete them.

    But there is nothing impossible about this project because we KNOW it can happen. There was the LRE on gunbroker that went for $1000. I had the money for it waiting and we missed it – too bad! But it was there- finished and usable. Then there was the image of the 3rd model Dragoon LRE – complete and finished! Still got to track that one down!

    A point on bluing. The Draggie LRE was totally in the white and just accentuated by it’s stocks, it looked Very Nice like that (to my eyes anyway). Bluing is not a big deal in any case and the cylinders are planned to stay in the white.

    In more general terms – Yes you are being negative (but I accept that you are doing so from a positively intended base with good intentions). However getting any project going – for anything – starting off with “I will tell you why it will not work” is not a positive motivational starting point for anyone. Maybe it is for me because it just gives an edge to my resolve!

    Anyway – thank you for your contributions they are appreciated. We will not just hang around and ‘see how it turns out’ all of us will be working firmly to make it turn out in the best possible manner.

    Aye

    Tony
     
  23. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    I hate to say it but Das is right. This is a rather unique little (and I emphasize the "little") group of Walker Lovers. If we need to rely on this group here to make this venture successful then they will sell for custom work prices from the get go. And how many would sell if they need to run at the same as the Walker purchase pirice in the first place.

    To achieve any significant price reduction from the full custom point there needs to be considerable numbers sold. And of the Walkers out there now many would learn of this stock kit and want one? Let's just say that it may not qualify as a flood of intrest and sales.
     
  24. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    BCRider, So what, you ever recoup the $$ you spent chasing love? How about tobacco, liquor or rent? This may be the Deloren of gun's, but look how appreciated the Deloren auto is now. Making a mark is sometimes more important than making a profit. What are you guy's going to be remembered for?
     
  25. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    HEY! I LOVE stuff like this. As long as the folks doing it don't go in thinking they'll be the next Bill Gates then GREAT!

    I've been doing some CAD'ing on a cap loader for our Remington 1858's. If it works and a few folks manage to benefit from it then I'll smile. But I'm under no impression that I'll suddenly be able to buy acreage with the profits.
     
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