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Unpatriotic and defenseless...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by cold dead hands, Apr 28, 2007.

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  1. cold dead hands

    cold dead hands member

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    Anybody else here besides me consider the lack of ownership of firearms to be quite un-American and therefore lacking love for your country that provides for the freedom that so many would kill for?

    There are sooooo many who respect every amendment but the second. I call them traitors to this country because they can not provide for the common defense of ANYBODY!

    My anger has caused me to think about telling bliss ninnies to go to some other country (and another place that exists beyond the grave) where arms are forbidden so that we who cherish our freedom do not have to fight a fight that we shouldn't have to.

    It is our right to own guns and it is their right to not have them, but they do not seem to understand that their right does not trump our right.

    Or maybe I could be wrong? What do you think about the idea of calling those who would disarm us as traitors to our land? A little Benedict Arnold style punishment for 'em maybe?
     
  2. Glockman17366

    Glockman17366 Member

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    No, not at all...

    Some folks just can't handle firearms...

    One nice thing about Rights...one does not have to exercise them.

    However, it is up to those who do love their rights to exercise and PROTECT those rights.
     
  3. Smellvin

    Smellvin Member

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    "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

    Most people seem to choose the last option.
     
  4. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    You may want to explain your post to us.

    Are you calling American citizens who choose not to own firearms traitors or just the ones who would disarm all of us traitors?
     
  5. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    not really....

    I mean... we also have the right to the pursuit of happines, but I don't view the depressed as unpatriotic.

    Nor do I view those who try to stay PC with their comments unpatriotic by not exercising their 1st.

    Those rights are there. They were fought for, true... they deserve to stay rights forever.... but having the right to something doesn't mean you HAVE to do it.

    I have the right and ability to go to the 24 hour McDonalds right now and get a burger, fries, and a coke.... but I'm not going to. There's starving people all over the world... so is my choosing not to go to Micky D's disrespectful to those who are starving?

    I don't care if somebody doesn't own a gun.... so long as they don't step on my right to do so. I'd like it if they'd buy a gun, and I try sometimes to convince people that the benefits outweigh the costs (financial, risk of an accident, etc).... but if they don't - they have that right too... and I respect that.
     
  6. collateral

    collateral Member

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    I can understand if somebody doesnt want to own a firearm. As we all know, firearm ownership comes with a LOT of responsibilities that cant be shrugged off. Some people cant or dont want to handle those responsibilities.

    However, I do believe that those who would see all of us disarmed are spineless traitors and should be stripped of their citizenship and given the big boot across the pond.
     
  7. BADUNAME13

    BADUNAME13 Member

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    I don't care what you do.

    Just don't try to restrict what I can do!
     
  8. ReadyAndVigilant

    ReadyAndVigilant Member

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    people have the right to vote, but most don't. doesnt make them traitors for not exercising their rights. look at it this way... when terrorist paramilitary gangs begin cleansing your neighborhood, you can be the one to protect those whiny no-gun people... maybe you'll change their minds. or maybe they'll realize it too late after he emerges from the cloest, after the gangs have robbed his home, shot his dog and violated his wife, maybe then he'd realize - "damn a lot can happen during the time I'm waiting for the police to save my ass."
     
  9. cold dead hands

    cold dead hands member

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    hso... I kind of like to think that those who do not own even a basic rifle for the common defense to be unpatriotic... maybe the word traitor is not appropriate in this case... and cumbersome to the defense of all other rights.

    I most certainly call those who wish to disarm us and those who compromise away our rights... well they are absolutely traitors.

    As for the common defense part... I will elaborate in that the 2A uses the words "free state" and this does not pertain to a state as in one of the fifty states only. Our free state involves our body and mind as well. The loss of defense is slavery. No more "free state".

    Plus there is that pursuit of happiness thing. I am screamingly unhappy that there are those who choose to try to make me a victim of violence with no violent recourse.

    All this adds up to being a traitor in my book.

    And just to really yank some chains, I also believe that those who can carry and do not...especially when they are with their family...are traitors to the ones they are supposed to protect.

    I do not expect to man of the year for my opinions and some will be very offended by them but isn't that what helps to make this country so great? We can disagree without hurting each other.
     
  10. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    I don't think so, at least not owning I don't think makes you unpatriotic.

    However saying that owning one is wrong I think does. At least in my book. But like owning a firearm is a right, so is the righ to freedom of speech. Just because someone doesn't like guns, doesn't mean they need to be punished for that. However if someone believes it so strongly that they are willing to impeed on my RKBA then I think that is unpatriotic. The way I see it, if you don't like guns, then don't own one, I won't question your beliefs if you don't question mine.
     
  11. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Guys, it's not about "on/off" or "ones and zeroes." There are folks out there who aren't 100% "for" us. Doesn't mean that they're 100% against us...

    The worst thing we can do is approach some guy who's just living his life, and start namecalling. Do you know what that equals? Him voting for ANYONE but a "gun person."

    A trend I've noticed in _some_ (not all...) "militant" gun people is that competitiveness is directly proportional in strength to the degree the individual skews to the left-most side of the bell curve.
     
  12. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    You may want to reconsider your opinion. Is this gentleman unpatriotic?

    http://www.medalofhonor.com/DesmondDoss.htm
     
  13. Catsailor

    Catsailor Member

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    cold dead hands

    "I disagree with what you say but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it." Thomas Jefferson
    I know the quote is not exact but the idea remains the same.
     
  14. Cuda

    Cuda Member

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    "[W]hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole
    body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike,
    especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from
    this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on
    every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be
    influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see
    many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail,
    no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."

    -- Federal Farmer (Antifederalist Letter, No.18, 25 January 1778)


    Just a thought for the day...

    C
     
  15. cold dead hands

    cold dead hands member

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    hso... thanks for the link. I will say that bravery in a war while refusing to kill is quite noble but he was not in the U.S. when this happened. Granted the man is a patriot because he served abroad, but what about while he is back home? Does his refusal to fight mean he is okay with being unable to defend his family, his friends, his animals and prepared to watch them die if that time were to come?

    Your country is more than just a piece of land with borders. It is it's cultures, ideals, people and hopefully a shared respect for the human brotherhood. If you will take no steps in it's defense then you may very well be unpatriotic.

    I believe that part of loving your country is the will, ability, and tools to defend it and it's people. If a person promises not to help in defense (due to whatever their belief structure contains) then I promise not to defend them. Sounds fair to me.
     
  16. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    c.d.h.

    While I understand your sentiment, allow me to suggest this:

    The rights we have do not directly imply a duty to exercise them.

    There may be a moral duty to defend the nation and to be prepared to do so, but it's an unenforceable morality.

    We have the right to free speech. It is, perhaps, every man's moral duty to take part in the exercise of that right, but the enforcement of that "duty" immediately becomes oppression.

    Freedom is also the right to not do something.

    Think not unkindly of those whose education or upbringing have disposed them to not own or use weapons. They may be won over by illumination and enlightenment.

    Those who would, on the other hand, negate our rights and freedoms, must be prosecuted with relentless enthusiasm, as they are certainly the agents of our undoing.

    Those who choose not to speak, let them go in peace.

    Those who choose not to be armed, let them also pass without rancor.

    Those who would impede our right to do either, and who refuse reason, let them feel our wrath as we energetically prosecute our cause to their ultimate dismay.

    Teach those who can be taught.

    They are many.

    Bring them an awareness of freedom and restore to them their confidence in their rights.

    The closed-minded and benighted construct their own purgatory. Let them enjoy it.

    Light the way for those willing to see.

    Patriotism can't be dictated. It grows as a result of realizing the value of what the nation is and what it has cost.

    And that only happens when you enlighten.

    You cannot love what you do not know.

    Help them, therefore, to know.
     
  17. ingram

    ingram Member

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    Part of being American is having the choice to whether or not you want to own firearms. I don't think not owning in of itself makes someone less American. As soon as they start trying to take ours away, then sure.
     
  18. Trifler

    Trifler Member

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    So if someone didn't buy a gun until they were in their 50's, are you saying that they were un-patriotic up until that time they purchased it?

    Having a right means you have the option of exercising it at any time, not a requirement to exercise it at all times.

    Back in my grade school years we were required to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. At the time I often said that any pledge you're forced to say doesn't really mean anything. If you're not choosing to say it of your own free will then they're just words. I believe the situation is similar in this case.

    To put it another way, according to your line of logic, a supporter of Assisted Suicide rights would have to commit suicide and a supporter of Free Speech would have to burn a flag.
     
  19. kd7nqb

    kd7nqb Member

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    I CHOOSE to own guns. The cool thing about the 2nd ammendment in America is the CHOICE aspect. Frankly I would say that required gun ownership would be as bad as ownership being banned.
     
  20. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    it's been done though. 2 cities in the US right? or is it just that 1 that everybody knows the name of (but for some reason I can't remember at this moment)?
     
  21. rlpinca

    rlpinca Member

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    Just owning a gun and hollering 2nd amenndment left and right certainly does not make one patriotic and suggesting that those that choose to not own a gun are unpatriotic is ridiculous.

    I know plenty of vets who don't own a single gun. Call one of them out in regards to their patriotism and you'll be in a bit of trouble that your gun may not be able to get you out of.


    I guess that since you're Mr super patriot that you also are a decorated vet? After all that would be showing alot more love for your country than just some tough talk on the internet.


    I have a right to choose to own a gun. Just as importantly, others have the right to choose not to own a gun. Being able to choose is just one of many great things about this country.

    Besides, I don't want people owning guns if they do not have an interest in regularly using them in a safe and responsible manner.
     
  22. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Anybody else here besides me consider the lack of ownership of firearms to be quite un-American and therefore lacking love for your country that provides for the freedom that so many would kill for?

    I don't think if someone chooses not to own a gun is unpatriotic. People have other rights they don't exercise voting, free speech, give consent searches, etc.

    Requiring everyone to own a gun is as bad as banning them.

    It's unpatriotic to interpret the Constitution to your liking as many anti-gun people do. The Constitution says what it says. Interpretations are up to the courts.
     
  23. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

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    The nice thing about America is that you are free to not exercise your rights.
     
  24. JerryM

    JerryM Member

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    Absolutely not! I know a few veterans who are retired and do not see that they need a gun, and do not hunt or shoot so do not want one. They have shown their patriotism by their actions and sacrifices on the field of battle.

    To think that gun ownership is a sign of patriotism indicates a great lack of maturity in one's thinking and judgment of individuals.

    Best,
    Jerry
     
  25. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    I would probably even commend those that know themselves well enough that they won't purchase a firearm if they aren't responsible enough for it.
     
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