Unpatriotic and defenseless...
- Thread starter cold dead hands
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Lonestar49
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Quote: Anybody else here besides me consider the lack of ownership of firearms to be quite un-American and therefore lacking love for your country that provides for the freedom that so many would kill for?
There are sooooo many who respect every amendment but the second. I call them traitors to this country because they can not provide for the common defense of ANYBODY!
My anger has caused me to think about telling bliss ninnies to go to some other country (and another place that exists beyond the grave) where arms are forbidden so that we who cherish our freedom do not have to fight a fight that we shouldn't have to.
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You've got to be kidding..
Freedom of Choice.. remember ?
The rest was not worth of quoting IMHO.
Was this some kind of 8th or 9th grade Essay Exam?
LS
There are sooooo many who respect every amendment but the second. I call them traitors to this country because they can not provide for the common defense of ANYBODY!
My anger has caused me to think about telling bliss ninnies to go to some other country (and another place that exists beyond the grave) where arms are forbidden so that we who cherish our freedom do not have to fight a fight that we shouldn't have to.
----------------
You've got to be kidding..
Freedom of Choice.. remember ?
The rest was not worth of quoting IMHO.
Was this some kind of 8th or 9th grade Essay Exam?
LS
I own several guns (though I'm curious as to percentile - are there any studies about where owning 5 firearms or 10 or X puts you?), but I have little time for nationalism (which is what patriotism has become in our grand land).
cold dead hands
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I shall to attempt to clarify my mindset.
If you love where you live and with whom you live, will you defend it or let others kill you and take it or destroy it?
This is no 9th grade essay. This is a very legitimate queston.
I understand that rights include the ability to walk away from and ingnore them, however I do not believe that you get to pick and choose rights that satisfy your inner ninny.
OK, you do not like guns. I get it. You are scared. I get it. But what scares you more... killing or being killed?
If you will not stand up for your fellow man then who will stand up for you?
The Jews learned this the hard way six decades ago. Do we have to repeat this cycle. Please do not give me any blah blah about how it could never happen in America. Go talk to old Japanese folks on the West coast about that.
This is about DEFENDING "THE FREE STATE" of body and mind.
Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a wall. Before you sound off, please read all the post that I have made in this thread. I am trying to get a real idea of how Highroaders are thinking.
Agree or disagree... as long as you put it to me in a logical sense.
If you love where you live and with whom you live, will you defend it or let others kill you and take it or destroy it?
This is no 9th grade essay. This is a very legitimate queston.
I understand that rights include the ability to walk away from and ingnore them, however I do not believe that you get to pick and choose rights that satisfy your inner ninny.
OK, you do not like guns. I get it. You are scared. I get it. But what scares you more... killing or being killed?
If you will not stand up for your fellow man then who will stand up for you?
The Jews learned this the hard way six decades ago. Do we have to repeat this cycle. Please do not give me any blah blah about how it could never happen in America. Go talk to old Japanese folks on the West coast about that.
This is about DEFENDING "THE FREE STATE" of body and mind.
Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a wall. Before you sound off, please read all the post that I have made in this thread. I am trying to get a real idea of how Highroaders are thinking.
Agree or disagree... as long as you put it to me in a logical sense.
Kaylee
Member
A traitor? I don't think so. Unpatriotic? Not necessarily by virtue of that alone, though the two will often go hand in hand.
HOWEVER.. I will agree that any adult (particularly though a husband and father) who is willfully unable to defend their family is irresponsible and without honor.
Honor however seems a largely forgotten trait these days.
-K
HOWEVER.. I will agree that any adult (particularly though a husband and father) who is willfully unable to defend their family is irresponsible and without honor.
Honor however seems a largely forgotten trait these days.
-K
thesearcher
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trying to interject what you want in your life onto the lives of other americans seems unamerican to me.
it is unamerican to take away personal rights and the right of personal choice on both sides of the spectrum. don't take my guns but don't make my neighbor have a gun if he chooses not to.
we have too many people in this country that want to make other people's business their business.
it is unamerican to take away personal rights and the right of personal choice on both sides of the spectrum. don't take my guns but don't make my neighbor have a gun if he chooses not to.
we have too many people in this country that want to make other people's business their business.
lacoochee
Member
I agree with Kaylee, it's not unpatriotic but I do find it contemptible.
Funny thing though, a lot of times these are the first people who come looking to me to give them the means to defend themselves just before a hurricane blows in. Even funnier is that after the crisis abates they still don't avail themselves of firearms for defense of their families.
If I were dishonorable and bereft of human decency, I could just consider their homes, water, gas, and food, my emergency supplies...
Funny thing though, a lot of times these are the first people who come looking to me to give them the means to defend themselves just before a hurricane blows in. Even funnier is that after the crisis abates they still don't avail themselves of firearms for defense of their families.
If I were dishonorable and bereft of human decency, I could just consider their homes, water, gas, and food, my emergency supplies...
cold dead hands
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Alrighty then. How about this thought?
This country was founded on the concept of independence...we will this term open to of it's definitions.
I am not saying that the refusal to own a gun does not mean you do not care about your country in that you would wish to go somewhere else, but your independence is insured by firearms ownership. I believe that the unwillingness of people to own even a simple rifle for the common defense means that they are dependent on the government for protection and that is not supposed to be the American way... at least it didn't used to be.
You could argue that if the time comes that you could go to war and the government will give a gun, but who said that the next "war" will be a traditional one that requires us to go to it. People do not unstand that war is more than just country vs. country, it is people killing people for resources, land, food, water, money any any other reason they make up.
If somebody within or outside decides that America needs to be "fixed" then who do we call on to defend us when our military is stretched thinly and the fighting isn't showng signs of letting up.
Let me put it this way. If it was truly required of me to defend this country (because this is where my loved ones are) then I would pack up and ship off to fight, but my loved ones are still here and how do they defend themselves after I have been killed (or not) and the war finally went stateside?
Guns! That's how!
I am trying to convey that the military is not the be all and end all to the common defense. Only the people wil make the last stand. How do you stand with no weapons with which to make a stand?
After readind some of the responses I think I will go bang my head on the wall for an hour or so because it will hurt less than seeing that my fellow countrymen maybe are truly dependent on someone else for protection outside of their home's walls and that they are OK with those that refuse to be armed to protect th independence we cherish.
Remember boys and girls, the 2A was deigned to protect from all preditors, even the ones who are sheep in wolf's clothing and vise versa.
This country was founded on the concept of independence...we will this term open to of it's definitions.
I am not saying that the refusal to own a gun does not mean you do not care about your country in that you would wish to go somewhere else, but your independence is insured by firearms ownership. I believe that the unwillingness of people to own even a simple rifle for the common defense means that they are dependent on the government for protection and that is not supposed to be the American way... at least it didn't used to be.
You could argue that if the time comes that you could go to war and the government will give a gun, but who said that the next "war" will be a traditional one that requires us to go to it. People do not unstand that war is more than just country vs. country, it is people killing people for resources, land, food, water, money any any other reason they make up.
If somebody within or outside decides that America needs to be "fixed" then who do we call on to defend us when our military is stretched thinly and the fighting isn't showng signs of letting up.
Let me put it this way. If it was truly required of me to defend this country (because this is where my loved ones are) then I would pack up and ship off to fight, but my loved ones are still here and how do they defend themselves after I have been killed (or not) and the war finally went stateside?
Guns! That's how!
I am trying to convey that the military is not the be all and end all to the common defense. Only the people wil make the last stand. How do you stand with no weapons with which to make a stand?
After readind some of the responses I think I will go bang my head on the wall for an hour or so because it will hurt less than seeing that my fellow countrymen maybe are truly dependent on someone else for protection outside of their home's walls and that they are OK with those that refuse to be armed to protect th independence we cherish.
Remember boys and girls, the 2A was deigned to protect from all preditors, even the ones who are sheep in wolf's clothing and vise versa.
pcosmar
member
How about the disenfranchised?
I am disarmed by law, and because I obey the law I have no firearms.
I do not consider myself unarmed or defenseless. As long as my hands are attached to my brain, I have,,,options.
I am disarmed by law, and because I obey the law I have no firearms.
I do not consider myself unarmed or defenseless. As long as my hands are attached to my brain, I have,,,options.
cold dead hands
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pcosmar... your condition is what i would call involuntary servitude to a cruel master who cares not for your well being as far as the law is concerned.
On the flip side of the coin, how do you find the strength to obey laws that would make you a servant when we are supposed to free men?
I do not advocate blatantly breaking the law, but I cannot not condone laws that have no logical reason for existing.
On the flip side of the coin, how do you find the strength to obey laws that would make you a servant when we are supposed to free men?
I do not advocate blatantly breaking the law, but I cannot not condone laws that have no logical reason for existing.
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pcosmar
member
Faith, in God.
Hope, for change.
floridaboy
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On this one, I pretty much don't care what anyone else wants to do. Except for crimes of theft, fraud, or violence, it should be up to others what they decide to do. And as long as I don't commit any of the above, leave me to do as I see fit.
cold dead hands
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pcosmar... I get the faith part.
Hope alone does nothing. You must take action for change to occur.
I know this going to be a little confusing but I will give it shot. The ability to live a passive live is only insured by the tools and the will to be violent when being passive, loving and logical are not enough. Your enemies will not care about your faith, loves, dreams or hopes. They will care that you have the means to take them with you should they decide to shuffle you loose this mortal coil.
Next, owning a gun in face of illegality without using it other than for defense can most certainly be constued as passive resistance with violent recourse to tyranny.
On top of all that, if your were to get an illegal gun and hide it while maintaining a lifestyle that wont have the police kicking your door then you are safe and you have something you can defend your home with that doesn't require you to get close enough to your would be preditors while inflicting maximum damage.
Self defense is not to be made illegal and compromised away. It is your God given right. If you want to bring religion into it, even God defended his throne from those wished to banish and destroy him.
Hope alone does nothing. You must take action for change to occur.
I know this going to be a little confusing but I will give it shot. The ability to live a passive live is only insured by the tools and the will to be violent when being passive, loving and logical are not enough. Your enemies will not care about your faith, loves, dreams or hopes. They will care that you have the means to take them with you should they decide to shuffle you loose this mortal coil.
Next, owning a gun in face of illegality without using it other than for defense can most certainly be constued as passive resistance with violent recourse to tyranny.
On top of all that, if your were to get an illegal gun and hide it while maintaining a lifestyle that wont have the police kicking your door then you are safe and you have something you can defend your home with that doesn't require you to get close enough to your would be preditors while inflicting maximum damage.
Self defense is not to be made illegal and compromised away. It is your God given right. If you want to bring religion into it, even God defended his throne from those wished to banish and destroy him.
pcosmar
member
I understand your point.
I am not a pacifist, and am still working on getting my rights back.
However without Big $$$, there is little chance. Had I the money I could buy my rights. As it is, I hope for a change in the law.
I posted in a home defense thread, that I have an ax. I do, I burn wood through the Michigan winter. I started splitting wood at 8 years old. I can use an ax.
I was also in the Army and learned a little.
I have also been to gladiator school (prison). I am not defenseless.
If the rules change, and TSHTF, I will pick up whatever makes itself available. I still remember what a sight picture looks like.
Till then I will comply with the law.
I am not a pacifist, and am still working on getting my rights back.
However without Big $$$, there is little chance. Had I the money I could buy my rights. As it is, I hope for a change in the law.
I posted in a home defense thread, that I have an ax. I do, I burn wood through the Michigan winter. I started splitting wood at 8 years old. I can use an ax.
I was also in the Army and learned a little.
I have also been to gladiator school (prison). I am not defenseless.
If the rules change, and TSHTF, I will pick up whatever makes itself available. I still remember what a sight picture looks like.
Till then I will comply with the law.
No not at all.
Quite a few people I know served in the military and never carried a firearm or were around a weapon of any kind.
Some were medics others nurses some worked in the boiler rooms others on engines or other machinery.
They served with patriotism yet many never owned a firearm
Many patriotic non gun owners are around you every day such as doctors, ambulance drivers, guards, EMTs, paramedics, firemen, good lawyers (rare but there are a few) etc.
They simply choose not to own guns, I would not force them to change but I would expect the same courtesy in return regarding my choices.
What I find unpatriotic is those who try to take away my constitutional right to do so especially after so many men and women have fought for and died to give us what we have today.
Owning or not owning a gun does not make one a patriot trying to take away the ability to choose IMO does.
Quite a few people I know served in the military and never carried a firearm or were around a weapon of any kind.
Some were medics others nurses some worked in the boiler rooms others on engines or other machinery.
They served with patriotism yet many never owned a firearm
Many patriotic non gun owners are around you every day such as doctors, ambulance drivers, guards, EMTs, paramedics, firemen, good lawyers (rare but there are a few) etc.
They simply choose not to own guns, I would not force them to change but I would expect the same courtesy in return regarding my choices.
What I find unpatriotic is those who try to take away my constitutional right to do so especially after so many men and women have fought for and died to give us what we have today.
Owning or not owning a gun does not make one a patriot trying to take away the ability to choose IMO does.
romma
Member
After years of mis-information propagated in the media left,,, I am surprised there aren't fewer gun owners.
If the majority of the folks responding disagree with you and you've explained your position again and they still disagree with you, they're not misunderstanding your position. You've made your opinion very clear. It's just that most folks who've responded don't agree with your thinking. This simply puts you in the minority of gun owners/carry permit holders. You asked and now you know.
Yes, those folks who actively work to take away our rights can be considered to be trators.
No, those folks that don't elect to carry a firearm or even own one are not un-American or lacking any love for their country.
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Joe Demko
Member
This is how the Constitution defines treason. You are defining the word somewhat differently. So, no they aren't traitors.
it is not exercising the right to bear arms that is patriotic or unpatricotic, it is the willingness to defend the right and insure future generations MAY choose to bear arms.
Doesn't matter if you own a firearm, as long as they are not telling others they cannot or should not own a firearm IMO.
Doesn't matter if you own a firearm, as long as they are not telling others they cannot or should not own a firearm IMO.
Gordon Fink
Member
cold dead hands said:
I certainly do not. I was no less a patriotic American before I owned firearms.
In fact, I’ve seen plenty of gun owners right here on the High Road demonstrating what I would consider un-American attitudes.
~G. Fink
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Joe beat me to posting the definition of treason in the United States. The Constitutional definition.
cold dead hands, I consider ignorance of the Constitution to be unpatriotic, my friend. And you have some self educating to do...as in reading the document-apparently for the first time.
cold dead hands, I consider ignorance of the Constitution to be unpatriotic, my friend. And you have some self educating to do...as in reading the document-apparently for the first time.
Man, I wish I could be as cool as you when I grow up.
Look, dude, the people that don't have the mindset to be armed, and don't desire to be armed, are not the people I want to have backing me up anyway.
A gun is just a tool. Your brain is your weapon. I can't just hand a gun to a wuss, and expect them to magically turn into Rambo. Those of us who have the mindset can try to cultivate it in others, but we can never force it.
As for traitorous, that's a word that gets bandied around often. Joe posted the official, constitutional definition of the word. Your definition seems to be: Traitor; Anyone who disagrees with me.
Also, before you see fit to go off and lecture us, maybe you need to step back, take a deep breath, and think real hard about the backgrounds of those you presume to talk down to about our lack of constitutional fervor. Some of the people you're disagreeing with have fought, bled, and killed for our freedoms.
Others who disagree with you have devoted their lives to training others to defend themselves. (personally I'm in the middle of four 15 hour days, spreading the happy World of Gun ownership, and I've got another 38 people to teach CCW to tonight, so maybe I'm just a smidgen cranky at being so darn treasonous and unpatriotic).
Maybe, just maybe, we might have a flippin' clue what the hell we're talking about. Ya think?
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