Update: Border Patrol, 20 Years

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Time to kick over the apple cart once again.....

I am 1000% against illegal immigration.

I am foursquare behind closing and sealing our borders. If I could do it, I would deploy at least two complete Infantry Divisions along our southern border, with instructions to detain everyone trying to sneak across the border--with the ultimate goal to send them back home.

I believe in draconian penalties for ANY employer knowingly employing illegal immigrants. Severe fines and closing of businesses, and seizure of assets. If there are no jobs available, they won't come over.

I am especially in favor of the swift prosecution of anyone caught committing crime on American soil.

And, heaven forbid, should someone fire a shot toward our border, we should immediately respond with crushing and overwhelming force.

But....

Let's not forget one thing...

In combat with an opposing force, if the enemy is shooting at you and has the means to shoot at you, they are the ENEMY. Close with them, and destroy them utterly by means of fire, maneuver and shock effect.

The INSTANT that they drop their weapon and surrender, they become a NONCOMBATANT. Shooting them in this case is MURDER.

If a drug smuggler is crossing the border with a load, give them a warning. If they still attempt to cross the border with their load, and do not surrender IMMEDIATELY, blow them to pieces. No quarter.

If, on the other hand, they SURRENDER, AND ARE IN YOUR CUSTODY, SHOOTING AT THEM OR HARMING THEM IN ANY WAY IS ASSAULT. KILLING THEM IS MURDER.

Those of us who wear the badge are NOT judges, juries and/or executioners. It is only by strict adherence to the law that we uphold the law. And that includes the prompt and HUMANE treatment of prisoners, according to OUR law, and the guarantees of the Constitution of the United States.

I DON'T CARE WHAT NATIONALITY THEY ARE, YOU DO NOT SHOOT AN UNARMED, FLEEING SUSPECT WHO HAS NO CAPACITY TO HARM YOU OR ANYONE ELSE.

Remember the soldiers who captured Saddam Hussein? They did NOT shoot him--he faced trial and swung at the end of a rope. How is this man any different?

If we allow this, where does it stop? Do we start shooting fleeing criminals in the United States because we WANT to? For what offense? Murder? Robbery? Shoplifting? Jaywalking? Where would it stop?

From what I see here--and what has been presented--these two men are guilty of aggravated assault. Even worse, they did it under color of law.

Unless someone can prove differently, they deserve every second that they get--in prison.

You can NOT enforce the law by BREAKING the law. No, sir.
 
No. The doctors testimony included the following... "consistent with the motion of a left handed person running away while pointing backwards, causing the body to twist. "

You may not like it, but there is not other reason for the defense to put the doctor on the stand other than to indicate the reason for the wound.
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(Bolding was added by me for emphasis)

Not reason. Possibility.

The defense put the doc on the stand to raise the possibility that the smuggler was shooting back and have the doc verify that the wound could have happened if their theory was true.

It does not indicate that the situation really did happen that way, just that it was possible.
 
Powderman,

I respect argument; in fact I agree with it.

My point is that looking only at the specifics of this case ignores the context of general lawlessness in which it is taking place. And that is a far more worrisome matter than the dereliction of duty of two BP agents. Respect for the law dictates giving them a fair punishment consistent with their offense and taking into consideration their service and previous record. For me that does not merit a crucifixion. From what I hear some of the evidence that should have been presented to their juries was sealed. Sealed why? And by whom?

When our President and Attorney General appear to be playing fast and loose with not only the law but the security and integrity of the United States, we are in serious straits.
 
and since we know that the agents lied and engaged in a coverup. even going so far as to send anothet agenty to scene to find 5 missing cases and dispose of em the agents own behavior sinks their ship. and its the testimony of other agents that reels em in
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And how does this prove that this was a bad shoot any more than it does that they didn't want to go through the mountains of paperwork and other hoops that officers have to do post shooting?
 
It does not indicate that the situation really did happen that way, just that it was possible.
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While it does not prove that the smuggler was pointing a gun back at them, the wound channel and location of the bullet makes it pretty clear the position of the victim at the time he was shot.

We don't know whether he was pointing anything while he was running away, but we do know he was pointing while running away.
 
If, on the other hand, they SURRENDER, AND ARE IN YOUR CUSTODY, SHOOTING AT THEM OR HARMING THEM IN ANY WAY IS ASSAULT. KILLING THEM IS MURDER.
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Powderman, I don't disagree with anything you said. What I'm not understanding is where you are getting the facts that this smuggler was shot while in custody. He wasn't cuffed or restrained on the ground. The officers were approaching him, but that hardly constitutes custody. From what I have read/heard on the news, one of the officers slipped while trying to climb down into a gulley and thats wher this whole thing started. Again, thats not custody. If he was in custody, he couldn't have run.

Sure the US attorney said it, but both the agents said otherwise. The US attorney wasn't there and the agents were.
 
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and since we know that the agents lied and engaged in a coverup. even going so far as to send anothet agenty to scene to find 5 missing cases and dispose of em the agents own behavior sinks their ship. and its the testimony of other agents that reels em in

And how does this prove that this was a bad shoot any more than it does that they didn't want to go through the mountains of paperwork and other hoops that officers have to do post shooting?

it demonstrates that the bp agents were liars at best criminals at worst. we know for a fact that they lack credibility. we can speculate about the others character but the 2 agents is indisputably lacking
 
What I'm not understanding is where you are getting the facts that this smuggler was shot while in custody. He wasn't cuffed or restrained on the ground.
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IIRC, they were close enough to buttstroke the guy with the stock of a shotgun. If they were close enough to do that, they were definitely close enough to restrain the guy, put handcuffs on him and arrest him. Done deal.
 
it demonstrates that the bp agents were liars at best criminals at worst. we know for a fact that they lack credibility. we can speculate about the others character but the 2 agents is indisputably lacking
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Alright. So assuming you are correct, we now have 2 parties who have no credibility. That still leaves us at a stalemate.
 
assuming?

if we believe the agents own defense that is what happened

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it demonstrates that the bp agents were liars at best criminals at worst. we know for a fact that they lack credibility. we can speculate about the others character but the 2 agents is indisputably lacking

Alright. So assuming you are correct, we now have 2 parties who have no credibility. That still leaves us at a stalemate."

no stalemate the agents violated the public strust when they first lied the engaged in a larger effort to cover up.
and the key testimony came from other agents as well as the 2 convicted statemernts. is their punishment too harsh? absolutely! were they guilty? absolutely
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IIRC, they were close enough to buttstroke the guy with the stock of a shotgun
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That's the dirtbag's story. He needed a reason for why he was running. "Normally I am a law abiding citizen but they called me a Mexicano de mierda and were going to butt stroke me so I ran. I wasn't turning to shoot them, I was raising my hands to surrender and beg la migra not to hurt me."
 
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The outright fantasy connected with this is astounding.
 
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neomaz

we know about powderman how many folks you wrassled into cuffs? i fear you mighta over looked this
"After Ramos told Aldrete-Davila to stop, Ramos drew his service revolver and pointed it at Aldrete-Davila. Aldrete-Davila jumped into a steep ditch filled with dirty water and when he tried to climb the steep incline out of the ditch, he was confronted by defendant Compean, waiting for him with a shotgun pointed directly at him. During his testimony, Compean acknowledged that at that time Aldrete-Davila held his hands up, as if to surrender, with his palms open, and no weapon was in either hand, or evident on his person. Another agent, who had arrived by this time and observed the scene, heard someone yell “hit him.” Aldrete-Davila, who was at one time a legal resident alien of the United States and speaks some English, also heard someone yell “hit him, hit him,” and specifically heard Compean yell: “Parate, parate, Mexicano de mierda.” (“Stop, stop you Mexican ****.”) According to testimony, Compean swung his shotgun around in an attempt to hit Aldrete-Davila with the butt of his weapon, but lost his footing and fell face down into the dirt and brush. Aldrete-Davila began to run to the river and did not look back. Agent Ramos also testified that when he saw Aldrete-Davila in the ditch, he had an opportunity to look at Aldrete-Davila’s hands, which he is trained to do for self defense and defense of another, and did not see any weapons in either of Aldrete-Davila’s hands. When Aldrete-Davila almost reached the river, but while he was still out in the open vega area, he heard numerous gun shots. Compean fired at Aldrete-Davila at least fourteen times and Ramos fired at Aldrete-Davila once. Aldrete-Davila felt a sting in his left buttock and fell to the ground. When he reached for the location of the pain, his hand came away bloody. Fearing the shooters were about to reach his location and kill him, he turned his head and saw the two defendants holster their weapons, turn away from him and walk back north.
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particularly the part about agent ramos's testimony?and compean swinging around with his shot gun? i started out as a supporter of the agents reallity forced me to revise my initial opinion
 
I don't know what to say other than you obviously have tried wrestling many criminals into submission.
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Nope. That's why the good Lord invented Tazers.

BTW this is when most LEO's are killed, transitioning from gunpoint to handcuffs, usually with their own gun.
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That's why if I have the occasion or reason to put someone at gunpoint, I will radio dispatch and state, "I have one at gunpoint, request priority backup."

However, this was unnecessary in this case; there were two officers already there.
 
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