Upgrading from single stage to progressive or turret

[ArtP]

Art -
The bushings to me are a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. Leave the bushings where they sit and outfit all your dies with a lock nut that stays in place, like the ones from Hornady or RCBS. That's considerably cheaper and only takes seconds longer to change.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Lee "bushings" I own, screw onto the outside of each die and allow me to instantly drop them into my press and keep an adjustment.

For a single stage guy, that is a solution to a real problem and time waster. We HAVE TO BE talking about something different. It appeared to me that Hornady makes something similar that wrapped (screwed) around a die and allowed the user to pop it right into the press - pre-adjusted. Perhaps I'm mistaken??

 

[flashhole]

You are not mistaken. Hornady has been selling their bushing solution for several years now. Lee is the newcomer to the bushing game but with their press the bushing is not an option, the press won't work without it.

I went the Hornady route at one time and came to the same conclusion, it's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, and sold them all.

 

[EddieNFL]

I went the Hornady route at one time and came to the same conclusion, it's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, and sold them all.

Not sure I follow. Please elaborate.

 

[Walkalong]

I used to think the bushings were an answer to a non problem. I mean screwing the dies in and out didn't take all that long, right, but since using them I really like the speed with which you can swap things around. Back when I used the Lee turret, I really liked the way it worked where you just took the whole thing off and stored it. I like the way the RCBS does their machine where the powder measure stays put while the tool head comes off with the dies.

What I like the best about the LNL is that my right hand never has to leave the handle, while my left hand feeds brass and bullets on the left side of the machine where I can see it easily. Very smooth and fast without trying hard.

 

[flashhole]

EddieNFL - I thought it would be conveinient to "twist and remove" the dies in the bushing. It turned out I was fiddle farting with the bushings longer than it would take me to set the die ring on the die and screw it in place. I also had a problem with the bushing adapters not fitting my presses. The quality control on the adapter threads was very poor and I could not get Hornady to make good on it. I finally just sold the whole mess.

 

[LiveLife]

It turned out I was fiddle farting with the bushings longer than it would take me to set the die ring on the die and screw it in place.

Even though I have my pistol dies in different turrets ready to go, I sometimes prefer to load 38/357s on the single stage press (I like the slow and relaxing single stage process for rimmed cases). I find that screwing on/off different dies in the single stage with the Lee lock rings is not that much trouble as long as you don't move the lock rings on the dies (some put reference marks with permanent marker to maintain the adjustments).

As to OP, it is good to know that Lee progressive press can be used single stage if you wanted to. If you already have a single stage, then you'll have the best of both worlds (that's how I set up all the new reloaders bench now for others, with both single stage and progressive presses - the cost of new/used single stage press is really affordable, often around $20 used for brand name press).

 

[Skip_a_roo]

I started on a Lyman Spar -T turret press and moved to a Lee Classic Cast Turret 4 hole as pictured in one post above. Now, I have 4 Dillons too, notice I said, too.

Since we haven't gone to the altar and promised to never part until death, there is no reason to keep a press you aren't happy with or to just get one that you want to try out. If it doesn't work like you want, sell it. Just from the posts in this thread, you can see that there is someone that likes that kind, somewhere. If you want to get rid of it, all you gotta do is hook up!

The next press I am going to get is going to be a LnL. It will be a nice contrast on my loading bench, blue on one end and red on the other!


All kidding aside, all of the major player's presses work as they were designed. Some, as in the Lee progressives, need a little TLC to perform well, others, like the Dillons just run and run.

I did just load up about 100 rounds of 44Mag on one of my Square Deal presses yesterday. Took me all of 15 minutes after I was set up. Setup took about 5 minutes because I have a press dedicated to large primers. I also have a shortcut to the setup procedure that will work on any die setup in any press, take a look:



Written on the lid of each caliber conversion is the group of settings for that caliber.

This press is proprietary, it only uses its unique set of dies, but they do serve a purpose, lots of handgun ammo in a hurry.

I have a Dillon XL650 too with a case feeder. That thing will flat kick out the ammo. When I was shooting competition, I could have 1000 rounds an hour if I staged things before I started.

I still load on the Lee. Small batches or calibers I don't have conversions for YET!

I am going to migrate everything to the XL650 and should I get a LnL, one will be set up for small primers and the other for large.

Also, I have only bought one press new, the XL650. The 3 Square Deal's that I have I have only spent $500 in all three. One was from a friend I shot competition with, another from a friend of his and one from fleabay!

Since the Dillon guarantee isn't just for the original owner, even one bought used is still covered.

FWIW

 

[mallc]

I'm a Red, Blue, and Green Guy.

I have about four years on a Dillon 650. We have interchangeable toolheads with PMs and alarms for four pistol and two rifle calibers. The Dillon is a great machine and reliably makes ammo as fast as you can set bullets for seating. But...we don't change it over for less than a 1000 rounds and it is NOT good for for anything else.

Last year we moved the rifle calibers to a pair of Hornady LNL-AP, one large primer and one small primer. Change over is MUCH faster and powder drop is a little more consistent. The quick change powder metering inserts are a cool idea if you frequently load small batches of different calibers with the same powder (IMR 4064, 4895). RCBS lock out dies work with straight walled cases but we are limited to visual checks for bottle neck cases with the LNL. We run a lot of calibers on the LNL but we don't change an LNL over for less than 100 rounds and it is NOT good for anything else.

We use old cast iron RCBS for trimming and sizing and a Redding T7 for working up loads and small batches of specialty ammo. It's a great press but it's not much faster than a single stage. On the other hand, I touch every round and it's my favorite way to reload.

Hope this helps.
Scott

 

[noylj]

What? The 1050 won't load accurate match rounds? A benchrest competitor might not want one (they like hand-made dies and arbor presses and loading at the shooting bench), but I find that my 1050s produced outstanding handloads.
Of course, I would NOT recommend a 1050 to any one who is not already a VERY dedicated shooter and wants to load LOTS of a given caliber. Caliber changes are very slow and involved compared to a L-N-L and very expensive.

 

[EddieNFL]

EddieNFL - I thought it would be conveinient to "twist and remove" the dies in the bushing. It turned out I was fiddle farting with the bushings longer than it would take me to set the die ring on the die and screw it in place. I also had a problem with the bushing adapters not fitting my presses. The quality control on the adapter threads was very poor and I could not get Hornady to make good on it. I finally just sold the whole mess.

I have a Hornady Projector that served me well. When the 650 w/casefeed hit the market I couldn't live without it. Had Hornady offered a casefeed at that time, I would have stayed red. I really like the Dillon toolheads.

Not to pick a fight, but IMO the Hornady bushing system came about in response to Dillon's toolhead. The case feed is definitely a knock-off.

 

[rsrocket1]

Lee is the newcomer to the bushing game but with their press the bushing is not an option, the press won't work without it.

Lee's Breech Lock Challenger does work like a standard press with dies. Just leave the single breech lock bushing in the locked position and it acts like a 7/8-14 threaded press. You can thread in and out the dies and lock them in place with the lock nut if you wish.

EddieNFL - It turned out I was fiddle farting with the bushings longer than it would take me to set the die ring on the die and screw it in place. I also had a problem with the bushing adapters not fitting my presses. The quality control on the adapter threads was very poor and I could not get Hornady to make good on it.

That's probably where your problem lies. Maybe the LnL adapter system doesn't work too great when retrofitted to some older presses.

The LnL system and the Lee Breech Lock system work great for me when using the Lee Challenger press and the LnL AP presses. I just started reloading and got a used Breech Lock Challenger system for cheap. I heard that most reloaders recommend learning on a ss press and to keep one around even if you move up to a progressive so that's what I did. The breech lock bushings work great if you need to perform a 1-off fix on a shell. Swapping dies is as easy as swapping a single stage shell holder or turning the turret on a manual turret press such as the RCBS.

After a month of single stage reloading, it was time to try out the LnL AP. I got this press because of a $150 Cabela's promotion + 500 bullets from Hornady. That made the LnL way cheaper than a Dillon 550 (my other choice) or a Lee Classic Turret Press (my original choice). After watching the Hornady You Tube set up instructional videos, it took about 45 minutes to mount, degrease/lube, assemble and adjust the dies/powder measure. I carefully loaded several 45ACP shells one at a time and double checked each of the five stages (decap/prime;powder drop;bell;seat;factory crimp) measuring with calipers and scale after each stage. When I was satisfied, I started cranking away. Even with a slow 5 seconds per stroke and looking into the shells after each powder drop, I got through 100 rounds in less than 10 minutes.

I'll still use the Challenger press to prep my .223's before putting them into the progressive and I think I'll always use the ss press for loading my .308's, but I really like the LnL AP. You can still be very careful in your reloading, but perform 5 steps for each pull of the handle rather than one.

Now for some reason, my ammunition costs have gone UP instead of down. It may be because I now go out and shoot 100 rounds of 45 instead of 21 or 200 rounds of .223 instead of 60.

 

[ranger335v]

"Lee is the newcomer to the bushing game but with their press the bushing is not an option, the press won't work without it."

The Rocket is correct, the bushing thing is irrelivant if you wish it to be. And Lee makes only two of their many presses in the near pointless "breech lock" design. I mean, it takes me maybe 40 seconds to swap screw in dies vs. maybe 6 swap a bushing die, assuming I already have the second one in my hand ready to insert. Even if I'm using a four die set that may let me "save" about 2 1/2 minutes in a loading sesson; that sure won't allow me to get to bed early enough to make getting up early any easier! And I use those die lock ring thingys to prevent having to readjust them.

Surely we will all agree that any progressive is much faster than a single stage; after all, that IS their purpose! But few of us shoot in enough volume to need or even benefit from a progressive.

 

[newrugersafan]

I will admit it does not take much time to unscrew a die and screw in another one and you don't lose your adjustments if you use a good lock ring but I like the quick change bushings.

I have a T-7 and a LNL AP on the LNL I have bushings for all my dies for ease of caliber change. With the T-7 I like to keep my most used dies set up and ready to go in the turret. I still have to make some die adjustments when going from 38 to 357 and 44 special to 44 mag but I still think it's a time saver.

Mike

 

[flashhole]

"Lee is the newcomer to the bushing game but with their press the bushing is not an option, the press won't work without it."

I think you guys missed my point. Whether you leave it in and screw dies into it or remove it and replace it with another, it still won't work without it.

 

[cfullgraf]

Since Lee dies only come with a jam nut and not a locking lock ring, the bushings are a definite benefit for them. One can set the die, jam the nut against the bushings and preserve the die's setting.

With a good lockable lock ring, the setting of the die is preserved so that it returns to the proper place when screwed in and out.

This is the reason I stopped buying Lee dies 15 yeas ago. By the time I bought new lock rings for the dies, I had spent as much as for RCBS, Redding, or Hornady dies.

But, I think the L-N-L bushings are kind of cool on my Hornady progressive.

 

[snuffy]

Different strokes for different folks. If you MUST have bushings, then the new lee press is a very nice, solid option. It's the same frame and leverage as the classic cast single stage. What the difference is that the top is threaded to ONLY take the bushings that the 7/8-14 dies screw into. Whether you simply leave that bushing in the press, or buy bushings for each die, you HAVE to use the bushing(s).

The standard classic cast, has a big bushing that's threaded 7/8-14 inside, and 1-¼X12 outside. That bushing has hex shoulders on it so it can be removed to use the BIG dies like 50 BMG and the special cowboy brass shotgun loading dies from RCBS.

Since someone mentioned the lee lock nuts for their dies, I'll put my 2 cents in on them. THEY WORK! If you know how to use them. The "O" ring is made to crush against the top of the press, bushing or turret. Once crushed by the hole it's screwed into, it puts side pressure on the die threads, and the inside of the recess of the nut. Once that happens, it's very hard to get that nut to turn, it's essentially "locked" in place. No need for a set screw. All you have to do then is get ahold of the lock ring and turn the die with it. Don't try to turn the die loose by grasping the top of the die. The lock nut will turn the die because it's locked to it via the side pressure of the O ring.

Another thing, the lee turret will ONLY work with the as-supplied lee lock nuts. Other rings like the Hornady are to big in diameter to fit all four dies on the turret at once.

 

[mcdonl]

Surely we will all agree that any progressive is much faster than a single stage; after all, that IS their purpose! But few of us shoot in enough volume to need or even benefit from a progressive.

I have gone around and around on getting a turret or progressive, but I can load around 100 rounds of pistol ammo in an hour, single stage so why bother?

Besides... I have a helper now...

 

[k4swb]

I must be slow

On a single stage press, I'm lucky to load 50 rounds an hour. I also hand prime.
Age is catching up so I recently bought a progressive. 200 strokes for 50 rds vs. 105 for 100 and about 25 minutes is alot easier on my aching arm and shoulder.
Why didn't I do this sooner?

 

[SSN Vet]

I load rifle and pistol on a LCT.

I can pump out a box of 50 pistol rounds in 20 min. at a leisurely pace, inspecting each round, checking COAL frequently and doing one check weight.

I love the LCT set up. It is my only press and though I'd love to have a 650 or LNL AP, I really don't need one (and can't afford one).

If I had started with a single stage, I'd likely keep loading rifle on that and get a progressive for pistol.

So many options. Life can't be all that bad.