Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

UPS guy telling me I can ship primers without hazmat charge

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by longdayjake, Dec 2, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,650
    Location:
    Genesee, ID
    Today I went and shipped a stock via UPS. While I was there I got to talking to the guy taking packages. He was telling me about a bunch of people sending primers and powder out through his depot without paying hazmat. He said they just have to be declared ORMD. Is he mistaken? If I were to ship something through there at his advice could I get in trouble or would it be his fault?
     
  2. evan price

    evan price Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,476
    Location:
    http://www.ohioccw.org/ Ohio's best CCW resour
    Powder and primers are not ORM-D. Your guy is wrong. Finished ammo is ORM-D. A bunch of guys are sending stuff out in violation. To ship with a HazMat tag you need to be a hazmat shipper having taken the classes and gotten certified. All those folks selling primers for $100 a K and Varget for $40 a pound on Gunbroker? Most of em shipped out illegally.
     
  3. ants

    ants Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,710
    Legal answer:

    There is no law requiring that anyone charge a fee for handling hazardous materials. It is UPS policy to charge the fee. From their rate guide:

     
  4. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    But there is a requirement to properly certify the shipment. As Evan mentioned, primers are not "otherwise regulated;" they're HM.
     
  5. sfc_mark

    sfc_mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    Augusta, GA
    I suppose it would be technically legal for them to take a loss on the cost of DOT compliance, but it wouldn't make good business sense.
     
  6. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,951
    According to 49 CFR 172-174, you as a Haz Mat employee (any person who is responsible for handling, packaging, labeling, inspecting, or transporting hazardous materials) need to be trained on:

    General awareness training
    Function-specific training
    Safety training
    Emergency response training
    Security awareness training
    In depth security training
    Any other training required by OSHA, EPA, or other government or international agency

    Once you complete the training, you then submit an application for haz mat shipping with a contract carrier, ie UPS or FedEx. You fill out the one page form, submit training certificates showing you are trained in accordance with the federal laws, and submit a sample record form for all the hazardous materials you will be shipping. They forward this to the security and haz mat division which approves the application. You are then approved to begin shipping hazardous materials with that shipping provider.

    My company is now officially a haz mat certified shipper with FedEx. The training was pretty easy.

    It isn't as simple as walking up to the counter and paying a fee. Primers and powder are NEVER ORM-D. They are always hazardous materials.

    Primers and powder are both Class 1.4 Explosives. Smokeless powder and black powder for small arms can be reclassified as Hazard Class 4.1 Flammable Solid if packed in individual containers not greater than 8lbs and shipping packages no greater than 16lbs using type 4 fiberboard PG type 1 class box.

    Ammunition is a Class 1.4 Explosive but allowed to be reclassed to ORM-D Small Arms Ammunition if packed tightly, primers are protected, and packaging is less than 66lbs.
     
  7. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Alabama
    Ship as much as you can before they bone you for the haz mat fee. Which they will.

    Companies are in the business to maximize their profits. They love it when you have little or no choice. They collude between themselves to reduce the competition, and increase their profits.
     
  8. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,951
    Great advice. Willfully and knowingly break federal law which carries a $250,000 fine each occurrence for illegally shipping hazardous materials.

    So what happens if you ship primers standard ground without complying and they are set off in transit? You are now personally liable for damage to other packages, vehicle damage, and any injury that occurred, not to mention the DOT will investigate this as it is a hazardous materials shipment. If you want to be childish and play games, please don't do it with hazardous materials. This stuff is not a joke and should not be treated lightly.
     
  9. azyogi

    azyogi Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Arizona
    Say I have some new primed brass, or SG hulls no powder no bullets/shot. If I wanted to send them UPS Question is is that ORM-D or HAZMAT
     
  10. Marlin 45 carbine

    Marlin 45 carbine Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Messages:
    2,477
    Location:
    South-Western North Carolina
    I have had new, primed brass sent to me many times no haz-mat as well as loaded ammo - doesn't make any sense.
     
  11. USSR

    USSR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    8,581
    Location:
    Finger Lakes Region of NY
    Primed brass and loaded ammo does not require a Hazmat fee, simply mark it as ORM-D and ship it.

    Don
     
  12. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,650
    Location:
    Genesee, ID
    Okay, so who classified the primers and powder that way? And where do you go to find out the classifications of shippable materials?
     
  13. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    Bulk primers are classed 1.1/mass detonating. Chances of a sympathetic detonation with primed brass is minuscule.
     
  14. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
  15. delta5

    delta5 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    That cracks me up. I can order a 100+ lb crate of surplus 7.62x54R ammo, and its ORM-D, but a box of primers or a lb of powder needs an extra $20 fee (for what?)...
     
  16. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    Small arms ammo hazards are fire and possibly light missiles (fragments). Bulk primers hazard is mass detonation (a bomb). Bulk powder hazard is mass fire. Loaded ammo is much safer than bulk components. Single round ignition rarely results in propagation.
     
  17. helg

    helg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    277
    If I work for primer making company, I would design and patent a safe package for primers that does not require Hazmat fees.
     
  18. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Let's not get carried away. Primers are not "a bomb"--that's histrionic nonsense. Nor is smokeless powder particularly dangerous. It's nowhere near as great a fire hazard as the gasoline in the tank of the vehicle carrying it.
     
  19. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    I left out the word "potential." My apologies to the literalists.

    I spent most of my adult life working with munitions. If you think primers will not mass detonate, dump a carton into a container and touch one off. I suggest you do so with a length of time fuze and an M60 igniter. I have not tested it, but I know people who were paid to do just that.

    Supposedly, the Federal packaging does just that.
     
  20. atblis

    atblis Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,531
    Location:
    Neither here nor there
  21. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    That's if they are "loose" or otherwise "having contact with each other." The factory package separates each primer. To claim factory sealed primers in their boxes will just up and detonate is absolute hogwash.

    Why would I do that? Obviously that's not a safe way to ship primers.
     
  22. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,951
    It doesn't matter how you package it. The fact that they are primers means they are hazardous materials.

    Completely false. No packaging is exempt from hazmat fees. If you ship primers you must pay a hazmat fee. There are no exceptions.
     
  23. helg

    helg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    277
    OK, then it is the task not for technicians, but for lawyers. Primed brass is not hazmat, right? I would design a cartridge, something like 25ACP in diameter, but with shorter shell to make the box of a 1000 smaller, and name the product "primed shells" instead of "primers".
     
  24. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    Ask Federal why they changed their packs some years ago. Nothing will "just up and detonate," not even gasoline. Something has to initiate the chain...say an auto accident. There was an incident at Sierra Army Depot back in the seventies. Three BLU-82 bombs detonated while sitting in an above ground igloo. No was within a mile or more, as I recall. Obviously, something happened, but last I knew there were only suppositions. Shipping, handling and storage regulations are based on potential risks.

    My apologies as I wasn't clear. What I intend to state was Federal redesigned the packaging to (help) prevent sympathetic detonation. I should have read Helg's post a little more carefully. You are correct; no amount of packing changes the classification of primers. However, there are explosives that are considered less dangerous (probably not the best word) if packed properly.
     
  25. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    In theory, you could probably do that, but I'm certain the cost would exceed HAZMAT fees. Plus, you would have to deprime the "cases."
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page