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UPS Next Day Air mandatory?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by JT-AR-MG42, Jan 21, 2012.

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  1. JT-AR-MG42

    JT-AR-MG42 Member

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    I am selling a few cheaper priced handguns and of course will be shipping them to a FFL holder. I do understand THAT is Federal law.

    My question is whether there is a Federal law that requires me to ship them NDA as opposed to Ground when using Fed-EX or UPS.

    They would not be labeled to the store, just the FFL holders name.

    I also understand they will not be insured because I am not declaring the proper contents and that their policy does not cover handguns shipped any way but NDA for individuals.

    I appreciate any insight on the matter.

    Thanks, JT
     
  2. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    NDA is required as is telling the shipping folks it's a gun. So you may as well insure them.

    You may want to ask your FFL how much it would charge you to ship it. FFL's can ship USPS ground. A LOT cheaper.

    AFS
     
  3. mbopp

    mbopp Member

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    AFAIK, it's a UPS / FedEx requirement, not Federal. Seems a few employees were stealing guns so the companies mandated Next Day to get the guns out of their systems as quickly as possible.
    I've also heard if you don't ship NDA they'll deny your claim if it's lost even if it's insured.
     
  4. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

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    Bzzzzt. From the ATF website's FAQs:

     
  5. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    The FFL I use charges me $20 to ship it USPS, plus whatever USPS charges, way cheaper then UPS/FedEx NDA in most cases.
     
  6. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Due to the cost of shipping a handgun via UPS or Fedex overnight, I have begun using my local gun shop to send FFL to FFL USPS. They do it for $40 for me while UPS is currently about $90. What a rip off. :rolleyes:
     
  7. MDW GUNS

    MDW GUNS Member

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    It is a rip off by FedEx and UPS since they ship Ground for manufacturers.
     
  8. crossrhodes

    crossrhodes Member

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    Fed ex is ups

    UPS bought FedEx some time back and that's one of the few reasons shipping has gone through the roof (monopoly). What ticks me off is that UPS has a deal with the USPS to drop off packages at the local PO instead of a door to door delivery. I've ordered non ffl items and charged for UPS to deliver only to find out they where sitting at the PO for two days.
     
  9. JerryC

    JerryC Member

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    UPS bought Fedex????
     
  10. jlmdlm

    jlmdlm Member

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    I believe that UPS changed the policy a little while back to requiring 2nd day air delivery, not NDA. I would check to make sure as I don't have experience with shipping this way. As an FFL, I always use USPS.
     
  11. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    can you provide a link?

    because nothing in my extensive google searching ( and my google-fu is unmatched) has been able to verify this.
     
  12. Arp32

    Arp32 Member

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    With all due respect, UPS definitely did not purchase FedEx
     
  13. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    UPS and FedEx require Next Day service non-FFL to FFL. They used to allow 2nd Day service but they no longer do.

    AFAIK neither will not ship non-FFL to non-FFL within the same state, even though it is lawful to do so.

    My FFL charged me $34 for the last USPS shipment, $20 fee and $14 for small flat-rate box with insurance. One thing to keep in mind with USPS is their cost to insure is significantly greater than either UPS or FedEx. Yes you can ship a small flat rate box for $5 but insure the contents for $600 and the cost goes up quite a bit, also add adult signature required fee. No matter what, it's a better deal than UPS or FedEx.
     
  14. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    NOT
     
  15. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    BZZZZZT.....read the citations to Federal law at the bottom of the FAQ you quoted. No such Federal law, the FAQ is wrong.
     
  16. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    I will even help him read it:

    Since the package would be going to a licensed dealer, notification to the carrier is NOT REQUIRED by law. It is only required by UPS and FEDEX company policy.

    In a case where notification to the carrier is required (going out of state to a private party), the notification must be in writing, just telling the counter person the package contains a gun does not meet the requirement in Federal law.

    FFLs can also mail handguns via US Post Office to each other, private parties are prohibited.
     
  17. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

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    Keep reading:

    In order for the common carrier to comply with parts c and d, they have to be notified that the shipment contains a firearm.
     
  18. Apuuli

    Apuuli Member

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    "Keep reading:


    Quote:
    (c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in
    interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge
    or reasonable cause to believe
    that the shipment, transportation, or
    receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part:
    Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply
    in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond
    shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

    (d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
    interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
    acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
    container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
    shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
    who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
    trip.

    In order for the common carrier to comply with parts c and d, they have to be notified that the shipment contains a firearm. "

    If they aren't notified, they don't know and do not need to comply with parts c and d.
     
  19. kimbershot

    kimbershot Member

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    saw a gunsmith website regarding shipping guns to him. he suggests making gun inoperable and shipping as machined parts--ie ship a `1911 with slide, barrel disassembled from frame. perhaps others could opine?:confused:
     
  20. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    It is internet myth that if you disassemble a gun it somehow becomes "machine parts" and no longer a firearm.
    That "gunsmith website" and anyone else that spreads that myth are idiots.

    A firearm frame, receiver, AR lower, etc is still a firearm under Federal law whether it is assembled or not.

    Some believe that its a good idea to tell USPS/UPS/FedEx that you are shipping "machine parts" in order to avoid their policies on firearms........failure to follow the common carriers tariff (policies) means that in the event of loss, damage or theft you will get nada on an insurance claim. Fail to follow USPS regs and you'll be criminally charged and subject to at least a fine.
     
  21. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

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  22. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    Learn a little every day

    AFS
     
  23. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    I guess the question now is would anyone box up a firearm and send it ground via FedEx or UPS to a licensee? We know it's against company policy, we know insurance, even if purchased, is likely uncollectible, unless they simply lose the shipment and the shipper lies about the contents. And, who knows if the carrier gets suspicious and X-Rays the box, discover's it's a handgun and returns it without a refund.

    Seems too risky to me, I'd still pay an FFL to handle it and get a good night's sleep.
     
  24. cane

    cane Member

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  25. dhodgins

    dhodgins Member

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    Do yourself a favor and call a few FFL holders. FFLs can ship USPS priority mail. IMO the easiest thing to do is find one that ships cheap, drop off your gun, and let them drop it in a flat rate box and send it on its way. Last time I did this it was $20/gun. No ridiculous overnight shipping charges and no waiting at a counter.
     
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