Bubbles
Member
So tack on a few bucks extra in the shipping charges for the buyer to cover insurance and adult signature. Someone dropping $900 on a gun shouldn't balk at paying $10 for that service.
UPS stole my gun
- Thread starter jlg
- Start date
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From the OP's multiple posts, it sounds like it's pretty obvious that the firearm went missing while in UPS' possession and UPS has admitted as much.
Does the UPS tariff differentiate between a package that was obviously stolen while in UPS' possession and a package that was simply lost? I suspect that there isn't because most of the time it would be difficult to distinguish.
UPS can be sloppy. My parents have had several packages that were adult signature only that they allowed minors to sign for or left on the porch. All of the shipping companies loose packages though. It happens. Buy insurance. Include it in your shipping and handling charges if you have to.
edit to add: If I were to make a large purchase from a small business that had to be shipped to me, I would insist that it be insured for fear that they couldn't stand the loss.
Does the UPS tariff differentiate between a package that was obviously stolen while in UPS' possession and a package that was simply lost? I suspect that there isn't because most of the time it would be difficult to distinguish.
UPS can be sloppy. My parents have had several packages that were adult signature only that they allowed minors to sign for or left on the porch. All of the shipping companies loose packages though. It happens. Buy insurance. Include it in your shipping and handling charges if you have to.
edit to add: If I were to make a large purchase from a small business that had to be shipped to me, I would insist that it be insured for fear that they couldn't stand the loss.
I've yet to see a large business not impacted by inside theft. Cleansing the ranks is not realistic, in my view. There are some technology solutions to prevent theft, but at what cost? Regardless, the requirement for overnight shipping along with other aspects of handgun transactions is a form of 2A infringement, is it not?
Bhamrichard
Member
Edit: UPS stole the gun I failed to ship properly
There fixed it for ya.
DenaliPark
member
Sucks that you lost your firearm, sucks even more that you failed to insure it! Likely, your scrimping on an additional $6.00 cost you hundreds....I recently made a trade with someone out of state. I shipped him a NIB Bushmaster 97S Carbon-15 Pistol. It's a 7.5" AR15 without a buttstock. They are very hard to get a hold of and not cheap at all.
When the box arrived at the other FFL the gun was missing and a box of fireworks had been put into the box.
Local Police and ATF basically told me that because it is just one gun they probably won't do anything about it.
After just a couple of days UPS called me and said, "We have been unable to find your lost package and since you didn't pay for extra insurance we will be sending you a check for $100." Apparently UPS can steal from you and call it a lost package...even if the package was delivered with the wrong contents.
What angers me more than the loss of $900 is the fact that no one seems to care that a firearm was stolen.UPS barely put any effort into tracking it down and figured it would just be easier to pay $100 and move on.
Stealing a firearm is a felony. So basically we now have a felon walking around with a firearm that meets almost every "evil" criteria that the government wants to ban (short barrel, flash suppressor, 30-round magazine, pistol grip, detachable magazine)...and nobody cares.
But, on a positive note, the ATF did tell me, "If he ever uses it in a crime we'll be able to track the serial number and know that it was stolen." So that makes me feel much better.:banghead:
oneounceload
member
We have a winner.....why would anyone ship a $900 gun and not spend the extra $5-6 is beyond amazement.
I worked at UPS one summer when I was a teacher - back when handguns went ground all the time. I knew the names of the shippers, but most don't - we also had to walk through a security checkpoint at the sort facility - so either the driver swapped things before the sort, or the driver on the other end did - again assuming the FFL didn't. ALL packages are scanned into the facility, while in the facility and then again upon being put on the truck for departure for shipping. The same things happen on the other end at the destination
Bonesinium
Member
If it truly did arrive repackaged with fireworks and not the firearm, then one person who would have access, potential knowledge, and the time and resources to swap it, would be the driver who delivered it. You said it was shipped to an FFL. Was this FFL a gun shop? A driver making a delivery to a gun shop has a pretty good idea what he might be delivering. It wouldn't take them long to, while on their route, open up the package to see what was in it, then swap it with something else and seal it back up. Sketchy but a possibility.
Xfire68
Member
If you had insured it I bet it would not have been lost/stolen! If UPS was on the hook for $1500 then they would be searching for that gun high and low and the person that stole it would know that it's more likely that there would be more of a investigation when the item is insured for a large amount of money.
I learned the hard way to never send anything your not willing to eat without insurance! I don't ship anything over $100 without it.
I learned the hard way to never send anything your not willing to eat without insurance! I don't ship anything over $100 without it.
Hanzo581
Member
That's a good point, I'd imagine they figure if you didn't care enough to insure it why should they care when they're only out a hundred bucks.
dogtown tom
Member
Do you have dealer insurance coverage?
I have a dealer policy and it covers my shipments (UPS/FedEx/USPS) as long as the package is shipped with Signature Required.
Unlike TV shows, it is rare for a federal agency or even a local PD to drop everything and raid the UPS depot to catch the crook.
In many cities local PD won't even show up in person at a non injury traffic accident or auto burglery, instead asking the victim to come in and fill out a report.
UPS/FedEx/USPS have cameras and eventually will catch employees who are thieves. You don't know what UPS Loss Prevention is doing right now.....I would bet they will not show their hand until they have a suspect.
Sistema1927
Member
If everything always went OK there would be no need for insurance.
A lesson, expensive, but a lesson none the less.
A lesson, expensive, but a lesson none the less.
marv
Member
FWIW if I ship a customer's trashed out injection pump to a Diesel shop for rebuild I insure it for the price of a brand new one. If UPS loses it that's what I'll have to give the customer.
If anything is insured for over $1K the driver has to give it "special handling".
If anything is insured for over $1K the driver has to give it "special handling".
Similar to techniques employed by others, I regularly double the value of insured items.
Loss of an item may hurt in terms of sentimental value...yet would be my winning lottery ticket.
That is exactly how I view it, too. Buying the insurance is just a chance at big lottery payoff.
Loss of an item may hurt in terms of sentimental value...yet would be my winning lottery ticket.
That is exactly how I view it, too. Buying the insurance is just a chance at big lottery payoff.
Flintknapper
Member
theory wrote:
Nope!
It should easy to determine where the PACKAGE went. The same thing happened to him...that happened to me. Except in my case...they delivered an empty package with one end obviously cut open and dangling.
In both cases the PACKAGE got there, but the merchandise did not (or was swapped).
Also, the OP is aware HE did not insure the item as he should have, that is not the central issue with him. He is more concerned about the firearm being stolen and UPS' attitude about it.
I experienced the same thing. I can assure you, a firearm or firearm parts will NEVER show back up or be found. For the most part UPS does a pretty decent job, but they have some thieves, plain and simple.
Nope!
It should easy to determine where the PACKAGE went. The same thing happened to him...that happened to me. Except in my case...they delivered an empty package with one end obviously cut open and dangling.
In both cases the PACKAGE got there, but the merchandise did not (or was swapped).
Also, the OP is aware HE did not insure the item as he should have, that is not the central issue with him. He is more concerned about the firearm being stolen and UPS' attitude about it.
I experienced the same thing. I can assure you, a firearm or firearm parts will NEVER show back up or be found. For the most part UPS does a pretty decent job, but they have some thieves, plain and simple.
Something about this doesn't smell right.....is here any way anybody in the chain could have known what was in the box? Seems unlikely somebody would just open a random package to see if there was anything worth stealing in it, but if they knew, or suspected what it might be, that's another story. And putting in fireworks? That's just wierd. Why not just rocks? Something about this stinketh, I'd be mighty suspicious of the receiving FFL, or an employee there.
Sure, shipping employees steal things, so do airline baggage handlers, now THAT'S a real den of thieves! But this seems too unlikely to me for just a random "hmmm, I wonder what's in this one, think I'll have a lookie". You said you declared it as a firearm, does UPS "flag" packages like that in their system somehow? So everybody knows it's a gun?
Call the Brady Bunch and tell 'em all about it, stress that you're "afraid for the children", and let 'em sic their dogs on the trail. They can put their moonbat donations to good use to track down that nasty, illegal, stolen gun that's surely going to be used in the next rampage.
BTW, that's a cool looking pistol, bet it's a hoot to play with! And I offer my condolences for your loss and the whole situation.
Sure, shipping employees steal things, so do airline baggage handlers, now THAT'S a real den of thieves! But this seems too unlikely to me for just a random "hmmm, I wonder what's in this one, think I'll have a lookie". You said you declared it as a firearm, does UPS "flag" packages like that in their system somehow? So everybody knows it's a gun?
Call the Brady Bunch and tell 'em all about it, stress that you're "afraid for the children", and let 'em sic their dogs on the trail. They can put their moonbat donations to good use to track down that nasty, illegal, stolen gun that's surely going to be used in the next rampage.
BTW, that's a cool looking pistol, bet it's a hoot to play with! And I offer my condolences for your loss and the whole situation.
Are you 100% sure the FFL party on the other end is not suspect? It would be nice to believe that others with our same interests are all honest, but the reality is that not all are. Just look at what "shooters & gun folks" have done to trash public lands in the name of recreation.
ColtPythonElite
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 10,471
Insuring for double and then making a claim for double sounds like fraud to me.
Actually it isn't. What you are saying when you buy the insurance is what the item is worth to you. What you are saying if they lose you item is that you are making a claim based on the insurance that you paid for.
It is just like insuring any collectible that can be lost or broken
Guns and more
member
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,929
It's a sad commentary on America when it's the victims fault for not assuming his package would be stolen.
billybob44
Contributing Member
^^^+1...This is Very true. Makes the things that WE were taught, growing up, mean less, doesn't it??
jlg
Member
I don't buy insurance and I'm okay with the loss of $
I really appreciate all the posts letting me know how important insurance is. To think all this time I was unaware of its purpose. I have been enlightened. Thank you. I fully understand the importance of insurance and if I only shipped one package every once in a while I would pay the extra $ for it. However, I don't see how paying several thousand dollars a year for insurance on the off chance that one package goes missing is financially prudent.
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned anything about money in my original post.:banghead:
I haven't completely ruled out the receiving FFL storefront as being suspect and as I mentioned earlier I think law enforcement should interview/investigate them. I also believe they should interview/investigate me. I know I didn't steal it...but they don't.
90% of what I ship out is guns. 90% of what the recieving FFL store receives is guns. The drivers know this. The receiving FFL has both the words "Guns" and "Ordnance" in his business name also giving a clue to anyone aside from the driver. In the future I will just put the initials of both my company and the receiver company to keep from clueing anyone in on what's in the box.
I have definitely learned a few lessons from this...doesn't take away from the frustration.
If we won't crack down on crime and broken laws that involve firearms what good will making new laws do? But all of us on this forum already know the answer to that question.
I really appreciate all the posts letting me know how important insurance is. To think all this time I was unaware of its purpose. I have been enlightened. Thank you.
I fully understand the importance of insurance and if I only shipped one package every once in a while I would pay the extra $ for it. However, I don't see how paying several thousand dollars a year for insurance on the off chance that one package goes missing is financially prudent.Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned anything about money in my original post.:banghead:
I haven't completely ruled out the receiving FFL storefront as being suspect and as I mentioned earlier I think law enforcement should interview/investigate them. I also believe they should interview/investigate me. I know I didn't steal it...but they don't.
90% of what I ship out is guns. 90% of what the recieving FFL store receives is guns. The drivers know this. The receiving FFL has both the words "Guns" and "Ordnance" in his business name also giving a clue to anyone aside from the driver. In the future I will just put the initials of both my company and the receiver company to keep from clueing anyone in on what's in the box.
I have definitely learned a few lessons from this...doesn't take away from the frustration.
If we won't crack down on crime and broken laws that involve firearms what good will making new laws do? But all of us on this forum already know the answer to that question.
highorder
Member
I had the same two thoughts.
The regular driver that serviced the FFL I worked for was a great guy; one day we had a replacement driver and you could see his eyes get big when loading all the packages we had going out... his eyes looked like dollar signs.
The simplest answer, sadly, is that the receiving FFL ripped you off. They were doing a transfer, right? Maybe someone thought they could snag some nice hardware and just pass the buck back upstream...
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