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URGENT! Research for RKBA again: listen up CALIFORNIANS!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Jim March, Aug 7, 2004.

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  1. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    URGENT! Research again: listen up CALIFORNIANS!

    OK, got another research project.

    This is about SB1152, Sen. Jack Scott's ammo registration bill.

    Scott is saying that 15 California cities and counties already have ammo registration (sales and purchaser info recorded at gun dealers, accessible to cops) and that it's "successful" there.

    He's getting his info from LCAV, Legal Community Against Violence, a grabber lawyer group who have published the following table:

    Locality Ammunition Ordinance Still in Effect?

    Baldwin Park Title XIII, Chapter 130, Section 130.72 Yes

    Beverly Hills Title 4, Chapter 4, Article 6, Section 4-4.606 Yes

    Contra Costa County Title, 8, Chapter 82-36, Article 82-36.10 Yes

    Hayward Chapter 6, Article 11, Section 6-11.07 Yes

    Inglewood Chapter 5, Article 1, Section 5-19.4 Yes

    Los Angeles Chapter 5, Article 5, Section 55.11 Yes

    Marin County Title 6, Chapter 6.58, Section 6.58.075 Yes

    Oakland Title 9, Chapter 9.20, Section 9.20.040 Yes

    Pomona Chapter 16, Section 16.50 Yes

    San Anselmo Title 4, Chapter 18, Section 4-18.15 Yes

    San Francisco City and County Police Code, Article 9, Section 618 Yes

    Santa Ana Chapter 10, Article IX, Section 10-507 Yes

    Santa Monica Article 3, Chapter 3.25, Section 3.25.020 Yes

    Tiburon Title VI, Chapter 32, Section 32-15 Yes

    West Hollywood Title 5, Article 2, Chapter 5.60, Section 5.60.040 Yes

    A big question has come up regarding the accuracy of this. One of us in Contra Costa County, who recently bought ammo there and whoops, there was no registration. He did so again to check, at a different location, same thing.

    The Contra Costa ordinance has NOT been enforced, law enforcement hasn't told the gun dealers about this nor have they scooped anything up.

    This is being touted as a "successful" program? :scrutiny:

    The goal: prove LCAV is stretching the truth rather severely.

    IF you've bought ammo in side the city or county limits of these jurisdictions, post whether or not the gun shop took down your info!

    DO NOT post the name of the gun shop. I may ask you in private, but don't go public. (Moderators, this really is critical: edit out the names of any gun shops posted, immediately. Gun *shows*, no problem as long as the vendor isn't named.)

    ---------

    FULL DISCLOSURE: there's a danger here that we might accidentally CAUSE enforcement to begin in some of these areas. OK? The tradeoff is that by showing that the bill's proponents are blowing smoke, we can kill off statewide implementation of the same thing and probably embarass the other side badly enough to make the issue go away.

    Meanwhile, I'll spend part of today calling gun shops, see how much data I can get that way. Good thing I have a free-unlimited-calls cellphone plan.

    We need this for MONDAY, 8/7.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  2. 50 Shooter

    50 Shooter member

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    Jim,
    You might want to ask over on Cal Guns.
     
  3. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Yup. Was just about to do that :).
     
  4. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

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    Have purchased within Inglewood City limits and have not had my information collected.
     
  5. Don of Kalifornia

    Don of Kalifornia Member

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    Hayward and Oakland both no longer have any gun stores, or even places like Wal-Mart that sells ammo..
     
  6. 50 Shooter

    50 Shooter member

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    Another place you can post it Jim is ar15.com, look for the hometown forums and then post it in California.
     
  7. BB62

    BB62 Member

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    Sent in a PM
     
  8. CWatson

    CWatson Member

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    I buy ammo in Los Angeles,City and County all the time and have never been asked for any personal information.However once I was asked if it was for a handgun or a rifle.

    You can tell Arnold's staff that one of the main reasons I bought a house in Nevada and plan to move myself and my business there within the next year is because of California's ever increasingly restrictive gun laws and massive unchecked illegal immigration.


    CWatson
     
  9. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    CWatson: yes, we know about the "drive 'em out" factor :(. I personally have six friends I've "lost" to gun laws as the major factor. (Well, I still have 'em by EMail :)...)

    Also: could you EMail or PM me the names of the LA City/county gun shops you've bought from, and roughly when? (If it's confirmed inside the last year, that's good enough.)

    That goes for everybody in LA city/county.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  10. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    heh.

    close to 10,000 rounds within the last year. All of it purchased within Contra Costa County. All at stores, none from gun shows. Once, at a large chain store, I was asked to show ID for the purchase of handgun ammo. It was a 50 round box. Most other purchases have been 1000 or more rounds, and I have never been fingerprinted or asked for id. All of the above was handgun ammo.
     
  11. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    We have reports from Van Nuys and Northridge - no request for personal info.

    This is all lookin' WAY fishy :scrutiny:.
     
  12. cerberus

    cerberus member

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    I left California in 71

    And I have not missed it. The more I read about how it makes life tough for a gun owner and shooter the more I think leaving was a real good move.:)
     
  13. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    bought Ammo

    In SF and Marin and coco county without being checked for ID with one exception in order to buy Fed Hydra Shoks (in SF only) needed current armed guard card.
    Never questioned about buying the far more dangerous FMJ ammo in either SF or Marin and coco county.

    Also you can tell the Gov and staff I'm moving ASAP as well and allready spend alot more gun $$$ in NV then CA now.

    While you're at it tell them that people from all over the world visit CA and SF and drive cars without getting a CA drivers license so please don't tell me that for some mysterious reason illegal criminals need a drivers license (which BTW allows them to buy shotguns and rifles)....

    Oh yeah workers comp is still real expensive for employers and screws over workers-thanks alot!
     
  14. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    YES! Just got off the phone with the owner of a very reputable Marin gun shop.

    1) Tiburon and San Anselmo have NO retail ammo supplies, so it's purely symbolic. They *might* have an FFL holder at a pawn shop or something.

    2) Marin County is NOT doing ammo registration, and no registration info is being taken at ANY gun shop in Marin that he knows of, certainly not his.

    -----------

    San Francisco's one remaining dealer IS taking down the info. Still waiting for work back on whether or not SFPD is actually trolling through it on a regular basis...
     
  15. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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  16. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    No ammo sales in Beverly Hills :rolleyes:.

    But there's a correction on Pamona: according to the local Big5 (thanks to who pointed that out in PM, I checked Big5's site but they don't list that outlet!), they ARE recording ammo sales. They drop off the forms with the local police at the same time they pick up fresh forms, so there's no way of knowing whether or not the local police are actually doing anything with 'em.

    We've found other cases where the records are sitting collecting dust for "over two years" :rolleyes: with the police not interested at all. I won't say who but he's agreed I can give his contact info to Arnold's staff.
     
  17. schizrade

    schizrade Guest

    Nothing beyond ID check in SF.
     
  18. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    I've had to give all of my personal info and thumbprint a couple of times in Granada Hills (San Fernando Valley).

    HTH,

    Sawdust
     
  19. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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  20. erem

    erem Member

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    Jim-

    I've bought ammo in Inglewood many times, and never had to register anything.

    (Edited to reflect Jim's requirements.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2004
  21. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Erem: strip your post out, send me the same in private mail or EMail.

    No store names.

    Mods: strip his post as quick as you can if he doesn't get to it. Last thing we need is to implicate gun dealers in illegality.
     
  22. Destructo6

    Destructo6 Member

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    I don't see any listing for guns or ammo in Santa Ana or Pomona, so that may be a moot point. Two pawn shops are the closest thing in Pomona. Two smith shops and a cowboy shop in Santa Ana.
     
  23. hvengel

    hvengel Member

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    Jim,

    The Contra Costa law only apply to the unencorperated (sp? sorry) areas. So if the sale takes place in an encorporated area such as , San Ramon, Danville, Almo, Concord or Pleasent Hill the law does not apply. My guess is that 80% to 90% of the places that sell amunition in CC county are not covered by this law.

    Also what is "succesful". How many crimes have been solved in those 15 localities because of this? My guess is a big fat zero.

    Hal
     
  24. Penforhire

    Penforhire Member

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    LA county store (City of Norwalk) -- they check my license, I assume for age, but never write anything down. This is for 38 Spec/357 Mag/9 mm/45 Auto/12 ga and some of these are labeled as "self-defense" rounds.
     
  25. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    HVengel: I'm aware of the "incorporation" issue in Contra Costa - but we have evidence that it's also not being enforced (no data even recorded) on county land.
     
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