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Us Army Drill & No Ammo

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by birdv, Sep 7, 2007.

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  1. birdv

    birdv Member

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    200 Army reserve soldiers are not going to qualify this weekend because they do not have AMMO!!! I believe they will be heading to IRAQ shortly 3-6 months.

    I just got the text message from their range officer. "NO AMMO"

    Half of these guys cannot even zero their weapon. :fire:

    I know it is not everyones job to fire a weapon in the army; however they should at least have the chance to zero and qualify with the m16 before going downrange.

    ?IS THIS HAPPENING WITH OTHER RESERVE UNITS?
    OR IS THIS NOT A BIG DEAL
     
  2. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Sounds like supply has a nice view of the back of their bult buckle.......
     
  3. 41magsnub

    41magsnub Member

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    God I hope not...

    This happened to me in the mid 90's which freaked us out and there wasn't a war on. Ok.. ok.. Bosnia but you get the point.
     
  4. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    Hold on you your horse soldier. No one is sending anyone downrange without qualifying first. You will zero and qualify so many times everywhere you go until you ge there. You will get trained and trained and trained some more and then you you will get trained up to your eyeballs and then you will do it in your sleep buddy. Don't panic. Uncle is watching over you.:)
     
  5. CannibalCrowley

    CannibalCrowley Member

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    Sounds like a local screw up, not an "OMG there's no more ammo in the Army" issue. The actual ammo for the shoot should have been reserved well in advance. If it wasn't, that's more a case of negligence than any imagined shortage.
     
  6. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    Obviously this calls for further diversion of commercial ammo manufacturing to military needs.
     
  7. Sheldon J

    Sheldon J Member

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    Sounds like a supply screw up...

    Military ammo has always taken precedent over civilian period, and as many rounds as the manufactures are grinding out I am betting someone someplace in supply was taking a nap at the wrong time.
     
  8. birdv

    birdv Member

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    "U.S.SFC_RET" God I hope so!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh the **** I heard about officers at seal would make you **** your pants!
    EXP(If you lose a weapon more than once you should not be an officer)

    This is the first time the range officer has been the range officer.
    They were gripping about the uppers not telling them how much.

    To find NONE!
     
  9. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Um, it depends on a few things.

    Yes, it sounds like a supply screw up, but there are other factors as well. I am currently in a tradoc unit, under which the current guideline to let students qualify is: "All students will be given the opportunity to qualify at least once during the course of their training. (At this post.) I've done MOUT, and extensive first aid, but I'm not going to get to qualify. And yes, my home unit is scheduled to go downrange immediately when I get home. At my home unit, going to the range was always regarded as a nuisance to begin with, and we now have FATS, and our CO lets us qualify in a simulator. (A VERY good simulator, but still a simulator.) I could feasibly go to Iraq not having done a live fire qualification since JUNE 1993.

    Perhaps the guys in combat arms can take for granted that they will live-fire ad nauseum, but this is far from certain for some other fields.
     
  10. birdv

    birdv Member

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    I am gussing you can shoot.
     
  11. DougW

    DougW Member

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    The way it works, the soldiers will spend 2 to 4 weeks in the field and on the range in Kuwait before moving north. They will have a range to re-qual and cross train when they get to their FOB. They will get plenty of trigger time before moving through the "jungle".

    But, before that, the guardsmen are usually sent to a large Army base (Ft Hood here in Texas for example) to train up, or even the NTC if they are fortunate. But, it depends on their MOS. My son is in the Army Band, and was not sent with the rest of the Division to NTC. He got "OJT" after reaching the FOB in convoy and patrol duties. That part sucked, buyt he did put a couple thousand rounds down range before starting patrols, so he was compitent and confident in his skills with his weapons (quals expert on rifle, M249, and Mk19).

    The nice thing is that he will be back very soon, as his tour is nearly over.
     
  12. MisterPX

    MisterPX Member

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    They'll do plenty of shooting at their Mob station, then plenty more when they hit the in country prep site.

    Did they even order any ammo in advance? Or did they expect it to magically appear?
     
  13. easy

    easy Member

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  14. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    Huh. Country at war, insufficient ammo.

    Wouldn't it be nice if there was something in our Constitution that said something like, say, oh, I don't know...
    "a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
    ...so that, you know, people would have the basic armaments (ammo included) to function in training and in combat...?

    Seriously: isn't that what the real point of the 2nd Amendment is? Just the people on this thread alone could likely provide the ammo needed until proper resupply can fill in! Got an address and we could FedEx at least a box each? now wouldn't THAT make for a heckuva news story...
     
  15. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    birdv,
    Got an address, contact, or something?
    Maybe we could put this up in the Activism forum, have people mail a box or two each, and get word out that it's law abiding citizens that are resupplying our military, thanks to the 2nd Amendment!
     
  16. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    ctdonath Quoted:
    That will never cut it. The military will never accept "any" ammunition whether military grade or otherwise. The best thing to do is tell Birdv to contact "his" chain of command and work out a solution and if a solution cannot be resolved then let Birdv contact his "congressman" Nobody knows for sure except his chain of command knows what's going on with this issue. Chances are there is a reason for it. Ammunition supply specialists in the Army will know what went wrong. Base Support Batallions or equivilant will know what went wrong. These two elements will know long before Birdv's unit would of known. Could of been a diversion of funds due to the oncoming beginning fiscal year Oct 01 and the requesting unit spent all of their training funds for the fiscal year 2007. You don't roll heads until you get to the bottom of the heap first.
    Units that perform well above average might get above average allocation of funds. Units that don't, don't. So remember when the finger gets pointed there are always three pointed right back.
     
  17. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    To supply the military with ammo in case they run out during training? Uh, no.
     
  18. pinstripe

    pinstripe Member

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    no ammo

    Sounds like, to me, that the procurement officer just got his a%* in a sling. There is plenty of ammunition available, but you need to get it ordered first. GEEE!:banghead:
     
  19. birdv

    birdv Member

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    I offered ammo and this is a big NO NO!

    range officer
    U.S.SFC_RET knows what he is talking about.
     
  20. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    I do not think the unit will go without a current qualification unless someone really monkeys with the paperwork to try to cover their but. The unit is required to be current prior to deploying despite whatever their job or priority level will be when they get there.

    I don't know if I would call my congressman but I sure would let someone know a good long while before I got on a plane.
     
  21. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Everyone will at least qualify, then they will go. Now having enough ammo
    for realistic live-fire training is a different matter entirely and I speak from
    first hand experience in this matter:

    My total pre-deployment training was two weeks before wheels up. I had
    one visit to the range, I qualified as expert, and that was the last time I
    saw live ammo till I was in Kuwait. My convoy training consisted of a couple
    hours in a video game trailer and a 200 yard drive down a road where only
    HALF of us were even provided w/ blanks. Afterward, we rolled out of a parked
    humvee a couple times and our Convoy Ops training was certified as complete.

    This sounds like the kind of training the Soviets had prior to deployment in
    WWII and it's happening right now here in America for GWOT.

    Pretty freakin' sad, huh?
     
  22. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Yes, however since most everyone is on tour #2 (or 3) What difference does it really make?
     
  23. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    The Army has a training management system that identifies and orders or reserves the needed resources for training well before the training is scheduled to happen. This is a local screwup, caused by not following the standard system.
     
  24. Noxx

    Noxx Member

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    "When the one with the rifle is killed, the one following picks it up."
     
  25. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Titan6, part of me finds that funny. The other part, the one that remembers
    that it was my first deployment, does not.

    Vern, I was an activated Reservist (not NG) who had no prior deployments and
    I was sent to a place that handled both AD and Reserve together (including
    some small representation by the AF and Navy). That's how we were trained,
    the people in the two weeks before us and the people who came two weeks
    after us. It was all set up in two week brackets and we were only delayed if
    our flight was. You had two chances to qualify (and I'm not sure how that
    was squeezed in given our schedule) and if you didn't, you stayed behind and
    waited for the range day during the next two-week session while the people
    you were orignally with went forward.

    This was the "standard system" when I went and looking back on it now it
    strikes me as rather Soviet.
     
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