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US Marshalls proposed asset forfeiture surpasses even the Nazis

Discussion in 'Legal' started by antarti, Apr 7, 2006.

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  1. antarti

    antarti Member

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    http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8GR6IM04.html

    I couldn't agree more.
     
  2. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Anyone arguing that we are not living under a tyrannical government -


    checkmate.


    We've read perhaps thousands of examples of government abuse, incompetence, evils, and jack booted thuggery...but quite honestly, this takes the cake. This is pretty low. I mean, this basically allows the free use of the label "nazi" to be used in describing segments of our government. You can argue about no-knocks, law enforcement, excessive use of force..those have 2 sides to the coin, but trying to take gold from teeth is pure Naziesque style.


    Now, who here thinks that a government who wants to take gold from teeth isn't capable of taking your guns away? Anyone?
     
  3. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    In all fairness, the US Attorney though that they just snapped out and were like a piece of jewelry worn on teeth. However, I have a huge problem with the whole asset seizure concept.
     
  4. Biker

    Biker Member

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    I don't scare easily, but this...

    Biker
     
  5. antarti

    antarti Member

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    Biker,

    Well said.

    I rarely start threads.... but this...
     
  6. neoncowboy

    neoncowboy Member

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  7. exar

    exar Member

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    That does look bad, Nazi Germany was exactly what came to mind when I saw that. When they found out the caps where permenant, I'm surprised they had enough restraint to not pull the teeth.
     
  8. antarti

    antarti Member

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    Umm... that's the thing. A lawyer got a judge involved to stop it.

    They were on their way to a dentist to have them removed. Which also kinda throws water on that "snaps in and out" excuse of theirs. Why not just remove it then... instead of sending them to a dentist to have them removed?
     
  9. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    And this has what to do with the concept of confiscating gold teeth? Who cares whether or not they are permanent or removable - it doesn't change the DESIRE and MOTIVE of the JBTs.



    Red herring folks. They're good at it, real good.
     
  10. antarti

    antarti Member

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    Correct.

    Also, notice that this person had no due process yet. Innocent until guilty anyone?

    This might open the way for say, kidney removals on arrest, which probably (despite gold's recent gains) are more lucrative.
     
  11. tellner

    tellner member

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    Power corrupts. Absolute power can be a lot of fun.

    And just today Alberto "Torture and Spy" Gonzalez declared that Ceasar can tap all phone calls and emails between US citizens in this country without a warrant or probable cause. And no law that Congress passes can restrict that power. And neither can the courts because the President is the one who interprets the law.

    "The Deacon drank
    The Deacon cursed.
    Though he still quoted Sacred Verse.
    He was Sheriff, Judge, He owned the hearse.

    Not a man to anger"
     
  12. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    Please, vote Libertarian before it is too late.
     
  13. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    Sure...as evidence of what?
     
  14. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    None needed, since the person is not being charged under asset forfeiture. It the property that is being considered tainted, and property does not have rights. But the government will graciously allow the former owner of the property to contest the seizure, provied they post a bond (10% of value IIRC) to get their day in court.

    Todays lesson brought to you by the letters W, O and D. :uhoh:
     
  15. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "...a judge was persuaded to stop the procedure."

    Gee, imagine that, our system works.

    JT
     
  16. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    What a wonderful world we live in. Our government now wants to take body parts. How wonderful...:barf:

    It may already be to late. But I will vote Libertarian from now on. I voted for Bush in the last election and I regret it. I will no longer vote Republican or Democrat because neither party objects to this kind of behavior. Or if they do, they do not do it openly.
     
  17. Sam Adams

    Sam Adams Member

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    The tactic of charging a piece of property with "being tainted" or some such thing is nonsense which, of course, is why the courts have allowed it for several decades.

    I wonder if some smart lawyer could make the argument that a "criminal gun" didn't want to be confiscated, and decided to shoot itself at some officers? The reasoning is similar - if property can commit one crime, then it can commit a different crime. If you charge it in one case, you have to charge it in the other.

    Some judges really need to retire or be impeached, so that people who understand plain English, common sense and our rights can actually be in a position to protect everyone's rights - property and otherwise.
     
  18. tjbert47

    tjbert47 Member

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    asset forfeiture

    Just one of the problems we have had pushed on us by the war on drugs. If you want to kill yourself with that stuff just do it. But I'm tired of paying for that failed war.

    Tom in TN
     
  19. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Those of you who thought this was comparable to Nazi Germany...could you point me to the part in Nazi history where your state-appointed defense lawyer gets to go the court and get an order defying the will of the state?

    Those of us who do favor less government and more civil liberties would really appreciate it if the word "Nazi" was reserved for those few occasions were it actually captured the horror of the systematic extermination of entire races as policy. Pretty soon they will do something worthy of the word "Nazi" and nobody will even blink when you point it out because the power of the word will have been defused by its frequent and erroneous use.
     
  20. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    "Possible evidence" of what, precisely?
     
  21. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    And thank you Bartholomew Roberts for helping to recenter things here.

    Let's see, the thread's title is misleading. Nothing was said about the US Marshalls' proposed asset forfeiture surpassing the Nazis. The pulling of the grills is nothing akin to stripping gold fillings from the dead, such as those in concentration camps.

    Apparently, the lawyer thinks the mass execution of millions by the Nazis wasn't so bad because the Nazis were good enough not to take the gold until after they murdered people. Just on the obvious gross level of scale, he is suggesting that the attempted seizure of the grills was worse than what the Nazis were doing? Did I miss something or aren't his clients still alive?

    The connection with the Nazis is bogus and is a ploy to make his clients look like the victims.

    If he wants to complain, he should wait until his clients aren't his clients, but are summarily executed after long term starvation, work, and lack of adequate facilities. Then, after dying, some equally emaciated prisoner will come in with pliers and pull those teeth (still remaining) from the corpses under the watchful eye of machinegun toting guards, the near hairless naked bodies being scooted around like garbage as the prisoner is made to yank the teeth with fillings from prisoners he may have actually known, realizing his fate is no different.

    Comparing his possible gangbanger clients with bling dental work (of which there is a whole variety that can be removed, changed out for different versions to match one's dress for the day, if desired) with the Polish, Jews, Gypsies, and other groups Germany killed in mass for no reason other than heritage really sort of discounts all that horror to being nothing of consequence except a little inconvenience.

    I am sure Toberman doesn't have much known history of his family being executed by the Nazis.
     
  22. JoeSF

    JoeSF Member

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    America: A guy makes money selling drugs to kids,gets caught goes to jail assets siezed, has gold tooth replaced with composite.

    Nazi Germany: guy gets arrested for nothing, starved gassed cooked and has teeth pulled.

    The A hole lawyer and his perp client are two of the reasons I own plenty of guns.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2006
  23. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Bartholomew Roberts...

    I agree that 'Nazi' will lose it's impact much as racist, sexist, xenophobe and anti-semite have.
    It's the 'Boy Who Called Wolf' syndrome.

    Biker
     
  24. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Flawed argument.

    To be Naziesque, you need not be deprived of counsel. What makes one Nazi-like is their behavior and policies, not what you (the victim) have or don't have as a mechanism for defense. It is the nature of the authority that is Nazi-ish, not the condition of the victim.

    That's the politically correct approach. It is like reserving any discussion to the civil war as a context for making race/civil rights arguments only.

    So by that logic, the only time I can call the government Nazis is when they actually march people into gas chambers. It will be too late then. But to be fair in my criticism, I must wait for the materialization of ultimate evil. Or more accurately, the logical conclusion of the current path to tyranny that we're on right now.


    Pretty soon? Try now.

    Respectfully disagreed. I already consider most of my government as being too Nazi for my tastes (although not full-blown Nazis just yet). This confiscation attept of gold teeth strikes yet another startling similarity between them and the Nazis of the past.

    Now, it isn't I who labels the government, nor I who creates their image. It is their actions, policies and behavior that mimics the Nazis. If they don't want to be called JBT's or Nazis, perhaps they should reconsider taking peoples teeth and doing many of the various things the Nazis did.

    As for not blinking...

    I feel as though we all suffer from a little bit of the slow-boil frog syndrome. We've come a long way down the road of tyranny, yet we keep on debating whether or not our government is rotten yet. Like the Jews of 1940's Germany, we'll only come to a consensus when we are being marched into the gas chambers. That's the sad part about us. We are so willing to overlook things and give the benefit of the doubt over and over and over because of our good-nature. Those poor souls kept denying what was really happening even up the the last few days.

    That will not happen here. Never again! (and I am not Jewish).


    Don't ever believe because we are "America" that it cannot happen here. It can happen anywhere as rulers are universally corruptable and have the potential for limitless evil.
     
  25. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I only recently learned about this mouth-jewelry shtick. So: If they're snap-in, like my partial plates :), they're no different than earrings. Jewelry. Subject to forfeiture under the WOD laws.

    Devil's advocate: Let a dentist determine if they're truly permanent-bond or snap-in. If the guys used the sort of glue that's common for holding in a dental plate, then, no, they're not permanent and the guys are lying.

    Now, I think the "arrest the money" stuff is BS. I don't care what the law says; I don't care about judges' decisions about Constitutionality: It's just flat-out unAmerican. It contravenes the whole idea of this country, where you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and not lose your property until after a court decision has been rendered.

    But to even begin consider the use of the word "Nazi" is foolish in the extreme. In the world of "Nazi", the mouth-jewelry would have been pocketed as personal property of the SS agents who first saw it. No lawyers would have been involved. Just two dead bodies in the gutter. And no witnesses...

    Art
     
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