Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

US vs. China

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by 50 Freak, Mar 26, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Here's the scenario.

    China and the US relations freeze overnight. It's obvious the two big kids on the block are going to fight. No nukes or biological weapons of any type are agreed upon by the US and China and will be enforced by Russia and the rest of the European Nations, who all by the way have decided to sit this one out.

    So it's just the U.S. versus China.

    U.S.
    pros: absolutely the best fighting force in the world. Best technology and the manufactoring capability to back it up.
    cons: Not enough of us

    China
    pros: their military outnumber us 2 to 1 (some figures put it up to 4 to 1)
    cons: their arms technology is outdated and nothing in comparison to ours but they are without a doubt the masters of duplicating technology.

    According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies

    China: 2.8 million in their military
    US: 1.4 million in our military
     
  2. charlesb_la

    charlesb_la Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    LA
    What are the Chinese going to do swim here? Our Navy would pound them to hell and back.
     
  3. AZTOY

    AZTOY Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Fort Wainwright Alaska
    Carpet bomb China back into the stone age. :eek:




    :evil:
     
  4. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,529
    Location:
    UK and Texas
    Yeah, conventional warfare and we'd pound 'em.

    Problem is, in a few years the dollar won't be worth squat and you'll see even the tech jobs are in china. Our taxes will be higher than ever, and buy not much of anything. Their economy is booming and the war will be won by virtue of them sitting on a big stack o' cash.

    The war with China is heating up and it won't be won or lost in the battlefield--it'll be lost at walmart. We'll go the way of France, but people will hate us worse.

    You see, China simply has better allies than the American people--our politicians.
     
  5. Fly320s

    Fly320s Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,828
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    China doesn't have the infrastructure to support an overseas war.

    As long as we don't try to invade mainland China, the US has it won.
     
  6. 30 cal slob

    30 cal slob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,092
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I'm more worried about China's burgeoning economic strength and influence, and what its military will do with all that wealth.

    You want to know why oil prices are high?

    China and India sucking up demand.

    The U.S. will no longer have the fastest growing economy (as measured by GDP) ...it will be China.
     
  7. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,085
    Location:
    Idaho
    Denied our nukes, we'd lose that war I believe. We're overextended in the Mid East, we have very few allies (in fact, most of the world would love to see our ass kicked), and we're struggling with our logistical problems which are legion. The Chinese don't mind losing a million soldiers or so and we don't have them to spare. And something folks may or may not be aware of - a lot of parts in our missile systems *come* from China. How crazy is that?
    I'm sorry to say that Taiwan, a country that truly desires Democracy, is doomed. We've pledged military support but at this point due to other commitments, we can't keep that promise.
    Biker
     
  8. Puppy

    Puppy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    145
    I doubt we'd see a major conflict between the two nations.

    They want American dollars, we want cheap goods. If that equasion changes then maybe.
     
  9. Harry Paget Flashman

    Harry Paget Flashman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Co-opt them...Give every Chinese family a big screen TV and unlimited cable. In less than a generation the Communists will be out, their work ethic ruined and their moral fiber frayed. They'll be too busy watching Bay Watch and Friends re-runs to care about war.
     
  10. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Fortunately for all concerned, time is on our side, and communist China's, as well.

    China isn't going to remain communist much longer. The communist system is rotten through and through. Vestiges of it may remain, but I think even those will fall apart. I believe the Chinese people will simply outgrow and outnumber their communist masters, and kick them out of their way. None of that's any way to fight a world war.
     
  11. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,938
    Location:
    The Copper Country, Michigan
    I can't see it happen. Most I can see is US giving Taiwan hardware, which will anger China, but I doubt it will push them to war with us.

    That, and what the others have said about communist China
     
  12. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    7,377
    Location:
    CA
    Ditto what Standing Wolf said. China is quickly becoming an industrialized nation. Its appetite for oil will increase sharply over the next two decades. That will be the catalyst leading to militarization. Then who knows what? In twenty years the U.S. will be another socialist state dominated and controlled by those who are now illegal immigrants.
     
  13. Mauserguy

    Mauserguy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Orange County California
    I studied in China, and I have to say that though their economy is booming, it is way behind us economically. People see all of the "Made in China" labels and think that they are stronger than we are. They are not. They are terribly backwards. Get out of the major eastern cities and it looks like the twelfth century. If we held a war today, it would be lopsided, assuming no surprises like the Yalu crossing.

    Fifty years ago, people were worried about another country outgrowing the US. It had growth rates greater than China does today, but behold, the Soviet Union, for all its growth, peeked and never really caught up. As Americans, we must concentrate on building our economy here. We must keep socialism at bay, and train our youth to be strong and independent.

    Let's keep an eye on them, but make sure our economy is strong.
    Mauserguy
     
  14. Outbacker

    Outbacker Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    119
    Location:
    Midatlantic States
    Mauser,

    That was one of the most literate, thoughtful, informed, and concise posts I've ever read (and I've read thousands).

    Cheers!
     
  15. Mauserguy

    Mauserguy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Orange County California
    Thanks, Outbacker.
    Mauserguy
     
  16. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,377
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Paper comparisons would lead me to believe the both armies are fairly well matched. The Chinese have numerical superiority, but are at a technological disadvantage. The US lacks numbers, but technology helps a lot. The things to remember in an infantry war such as this come from history.
    NEVER underestimate the enemy. Germany was guilty of this on several occasions. They had American troops surrounded in a city yet couldn't achieve victory. They thought the Americans would surrender and even gave them a chance to. The Germans never brought the full force of their artillery to bear and it cost them.
    The Germans threw the Soviets deeper and deeper into Russia. The poor Soviets lost millions of men and women to the blitz. Germany kept fighting on and on until they were overextended. The Germans underestimated the will of the Soviets and overestimated their own chances. History would have shown them that Russia is too large to conquer in that fashion.

    Fast forward 30 years to Vietnam. The US had a technologically and tactically superior force fighting a smaller army and guerilla forces. A lot of teh loss could be attributed to running the war from Washington, but fighting in those conditions was tough.
    The greatest success came from using the same tactics against the Vietnamese. Instead of rolling in slow moving tanks and giving them ample time to run, you ambush and use fast moving squads. Kill em so they can't come back.

    Fast Forward to hypothetical situation.
    The US, remembering these things knows not to underestimate numerical superiority. Use the terrain to your advantage and don't forget airstrikes they can't counter. Don't chase them too deep into the country. China is a big country and you don't want to overstretch your supply lines. Take coastal areas before pushing inland.
    Win popular support by leaving civilian freedoms intact as much as possible. This is where humanitarian aid should be spent. If you blow up a school, rebuild it.
    Next, LEAVE NONE ALIVE! The Chinese have a history of being a very resilient people. If you leave communist forces alive, they could take over again and give you the same problems. Kill/remove them all!
    Set up a Republic, not a democracy. Make sure they understand how rights work. They have had their rights restored to them, not given by the USA.

    Teach them that they have always had these rights.
     
  17. SamlautRanger

    SamlautRanger member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    310
    Location:
    Cambodia
    US would get ass kicked

    As an american who has lived in China before, is currently living in Asia, and as a US veteran who has fought in several wars, I can say IMHO that the US would get our assess kicked by China.

    China not only has many. many more personnel in its military but also now has advanced weaponary.

    The other reason is, look at how many in the US are turning against the war in Iraq, after only 1500 or so dead. Would the US stand behind a war when those numbers are 10x that or worse??? I can tell you this, from living in China, most Chinese think that if they loose 100,000 or more to take back Taiwan or if they were fighting us it would be an acceptable loss to them and they would still support it. I am afraid that would not happen in the USA.

    America needs to take a serious looks at China in many area. I can tell you first hand, that China has their hands in all of asia. They are the ones behind much of the illegal logging and other environmental destruction throughout other parts of asia. Raping other parts of less developed asia, to build themseleves up. Alos, the Chinese are pouring out money to many other countries militarys, wining and dining their Generals and training their men. That is the case here in Cambodia. While America was asleep, China came in and is bascially taking over the Cambodian (and also Myanmar) military underneath the table. To China, they regard history, and look at themselves as the middle kingdom, and that all of Asia should one day be back under their control.
     
  18. faustulus

    faustulus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Why is it we spend our time creating enemies for ourselves? After the germans were gone, we created the soviet threat to justify the continuation of the military conflict, after the russians bowed out, we began looking elsewhere.
     
  19. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    4,981
    faustulus, something about freedom and eternal vigilance comes to mind....
     
  20. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,377
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    The Soviets were around before the NAZI's.

    Creating enemies seems to be a more recent pastime. The government seems to do it with its own citizens though.
     
  21. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,938
    Location:
    The Copper Country, Michigan
    He's got a point. If we did go to war, it would probably be the American public that would lose the war for us.
     
  22. Husker1911

    Husker1911 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    La Vista, NE. Alright, Lincoln on Game day Saturda
    It's inevitable the US enters war with China. It's natural the two biggest fighters on the block fight each other. Don't discount China's highly advanced anti-ship missles. Can enough launched missles overcome a carrier fleet's defenses?

    I'm 50. I give even odds I'll see the war in my lifetime. We've had it good in this country a long time. Too long. People are trading away their rights. Wait until China sparks the Muslim terrorists. To counter bombings, we'll see 15% total population concealed carry as the terrorists attack America.

    Don't discount China. I've talked to Korean war vets, who endured human wave assaults. They're resourseful, persistent people.

    Taiwan will be gobbled up within five years. The US will be powerless to prevent it. The same fate will befall S. Korea, shortly after. I don't have great confidence the free world can defeat China, over the next two hundred years.

    I volunteer for the guerilla warfare that will follow any attack upon home soil. I believe I can arm twenty people. America won't go easily. Grim times lay ahead. JMHO
     
  23. UnintendedConsequences

    UnintendedConsequences Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    105
    It is a matter of having a will to fight

    Regardless of who we fight, we as a society, a people, a culture and a nation must have the will to fight. After seeing how our past and present enemies have treated our solders, all I can say is, when it is time to take the fight to them, forget the conventions and terminate them all. Give no quarter to any enemy combatant and make them into examples.

    If the enemy decides to brutalize civilans on our soil, let them. For when we capture the enemy, I am sure we can find ways to exact very clear and expressive ways of punishment and retribution.

    Those who wish to turn belly up to the enemy will get what they deserve. Those who fight and die will at least die with freedom and liberty.

    I don't think it would be a good idea to take the opposing country. Rather, bomb it into rubble and leave it.

    I grant that the country with the strongest economy may win an economic war, but the country and people with the strongest will to fight and die in their defense will be the winner.
     
  24. Daemon688

    Daemon688 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    MN
    This is a war with no winners. China can not invade and hold America. The US can not invade and hold China. In both cases, the countries have plenty of land and many people willing to fight off the foreigners. If you think the Chinese people would accept American soldiers with open arms, then you would be sadly mistaken.

    As of right now, the only conflict that can arise between China and the US is if China invades Taiwan. When that happens (because it will) it would be foolish for the US to intervene by itself.

    The economy is booming in China right now and communist China is not the same as communist Russia. They're experimenting with their own version with a capitalistic take on the economy. There is a rapidly growing middle class in China. Just look at the auto sales over there. Oil prices today can not be completly pinned down on China and Indias growing demand. Besides, the largest consumers is the US and our morbid fascination with gas guzzling SUVs.

    With time, China will have the same military technology as any EU country or the US. Just because China is going to be the next big kid on the block does not ensure a war. The only way I can forsee an international coalition against China is if they invade another country (other than Taiwan). To me a good comparison to China and Taiwan is North vs. South in our own civil war. I doubt US would have stayed idly by if the confederates still claimed Florida. Even today, people still aren't over the civil war even though it has been well over a hundred years!

    A little off topic /rant off
     
  25. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,479
    Location:
    Seattle
    The only way that China is in a possition to attack our forces is if WE go over there. They have no ability to project conventional forces overseas. By default we can't really LOSE the war because we could always just return back to our country safe from any counter-attack. We might fail to conquer China but, that is not the same thing. Really, I don't think its likely since there is no pay-off for either country to go to war.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page