Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

USA: "In surprise move, Bush backs renewal of assault weapons ban "

Discussion in 'Legal' started by cuchulainn, Apr 12, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Looking for a cow that Queen Meadhbh stole
    http://www.charleston.net/stories/041203/wor_12bushguns.shtml
     
  2. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Gallatin Co. MT
    To whom? Not to me. It wasn't hard to see if one would look through the smokescreen they call Iraq.
     
  3. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,056
    Location:
    United Socialist States of Obama
    Bush has said all along that he would renew the assault weapons ban, if the Congress were to pass it and send the bill to him.

    This is not a change in policy. He has never stated otherwise.
     
  4. TallPine

    TallPine Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,734
    Location:
    somewhere in the middle of Montana
    Just part of the Bush plan to lose the election in 2004 ...

    (maybe he really is dumb?)
     
  5. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,545
    Location:
    No. Virginia and Northern Neck
    The President just carefully drew a bead on his left foot and pulled the trigger. There'll be trouble over this. :fire:

    TC
    TFL Survivor
     
  6. hammer4nc

    hammer4nc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    977
    So here's the question: How much pressure is Bush going to apply on congress to pass the new bill (so he can sign it)? He won't be the first politician to play both sides against the middle, by posturing for a bill he know will never reach his desk...though this is contrary to Bush's advertised "straight ahead" style. Is he just raising the issue to kill more democrats in 2004?

    Political history: Remember, the AW ban is thought to have cost the democrats control of the house of representatives (including de-Foley-ating a sitting speaker), in '94. Also, 92% reelection rate for house members voting to repeal the AW ban in '96 (never got through the senate).

    I can't believe public opinion has changed that markedly since the mid 90's. Confused?
     
  7. OF

    OF Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,988
    Well, either hammer or Leatherneck have it right. Bush is either proving the pundits who say he's no genius on domestic policy matters, or he is a genius and you have to look past the headlines to see it.

    We are in charge of the outcome. Make sure this thing never hits his desk so he doesn't have to prove himself one way or the other.

    - Gabe
     
  8. The Rock

    The Rock Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Occupied VA, CSA
    The AWB will die.

    We've known Bush Jr is the same as Bush Sr is the same as Clinton. None actually support your right to carry as you see fit, but that should not come as any surprise to anyone who has been paying any sort of attention.

    TR
     
  9. Boats

    Boats member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,705
    Location:
    Oregon
    Did you guys skip right over Machievelli in school? This is a "compassionate conservative" ploy from the get-go. Just watch it unfold.

    Bush comes out in support of extension after getting big negative press write-ups a few months ago for lukewarm comments about the administration supporting the "current law."

    However, at least two players have their thinking caps on besides Bush. First, Matt Bennett of "Americans for Gun Safety:rolleyes:" immediately realized that if the president did not use his political clout to push for Congress to act that the extension won't happen. Then Bush could just shrug and say, "I guess the people, as reflected by the House's inaction, just weren't for it anymore." Political cover, baby!

    Wayne LaPierre, and the NRA, are also not asleep at the switch. Bush gets to distance himself from the spurious charge that he is in their pocket and LaPierre kills the AWB where they were going to all along anyways--in the House subcommittee on crime or in the House Justice Committee. The fewer people you need to kill it, the better, as House reps from solidly controlled pro-gun districts will never answer for failing to hear an extension of the AWB that their constituents don't want. Even then, if somehow all of the House Democrats come out in favor of gun control via a discharge petition in the House, they don't have the votes to pass it on a floor vote. Remember, the original AWB barely passed in a Demo controled House. It would never pass today without some more high profile criminal crap timed just wrong.

    "Ultimately, I think this issue is going to be decided by the Congress," LaPierre said. Enough said there.

    This is politics, not first and goal at the one yard line. Some deception is required to kill the AWB while at the same time not handing a cost-free club to the left wing press and politicians to beat Bush over the head with in front of the soccer moms.

    I too think Bush is crazy--like a fox.:evil:
     
  10. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,027
    Bush supports assault weapon ban renewal

    I hope this is nothing more than smart politics - and he's supporting a bill that he knows he'll never have to sign. Anything else and he's going to be a one term President, like his father. I don't see gun owners - who want some of our Rights restored - voting Democrat, but I could see them sitting out the election. If Congress acts on this and he signs it, I won't support them.
     
  11. Boats

    Boats member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,705
    Location:
    Oregon
    Well, that is the gamble Bush is making with his base isn't it? Backchannel they are going to do everything possible to make sure Bush never has to sign anything smacking of gun control.
     
  12. hammer4nc

    hammer4nc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    977
    Upon further reflection...this story really is nothing more than an off-handed remark, made in passing by a minor functionary (Scott McClellan, usually briefs the press on Barney the white house dog!), to a single Knight Ritter reporter. Not a news conference, nothing. All the reaction angles were created by the same reporter, making phone calls to various players in the issue, and composing the story. About as far from "white house policy" as you can get. Manufactured news.

    We'll never know if this was a clever news plant by Bush, or if Scott McClellan is now getting his pp whacked by boss Ari Fleischer, for blabbing out of turn. My bet is the story will die.
     
  13. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    Boy, the mental gyrations an abused spouse will go through to believe "He really does love me, you know!"

    He said he supported the ban in his campaign. He's said before that he'd even favor increasing restrictions (ending importation of "hi-cap" mags and banning their posession by people under 21). He's said before that he'd sign a renewal.

    That this is considered a surprise by anyone is actually pretty funny, really. :)
     
  14. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Do I look surprised?
     
  15. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    18,934
    No surprise at all. Politics as usual.
     
  16. Kharn

    Kharn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,999
    Location:
    Maryland
    If its not Ari saying it, its probaby a ploy to cover W's butt when the renewal fails. If Ari announces it with fanfair and such in a big conference, we're in for a back stabbing.

    Kharn
     
  17. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    What? Doesn't he want to get re-elected?

    [Republican-leaning Libertarian]
     
  18. UnknownSailor

    UnknownSailor Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    595
    Location:
    Bremerton, WA
    Boats has a good point, WRT passage of a renewal probably not possible without another "massacre". I hope that between now and September, 2004, that all of those on THR are extra vigilant for another Stockton, or Columbine.
     
  19. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    6,513
    Location:
    Winter Haven, FL
    This is the reason I am really glad the AW ban dies before I make my decision on who to vote for in the next presidential election.

    Simple process. Bush signs a new AW ban, I will not vote for him.
     
  20. Cal4D4

    Cal4D4 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    629
    Location:
    SoCal
    "Wayne LaPierre, and the NRA, are also not asleep at the switch."

    If they actually do snub this in the House it will go a long way to changing my thoughts on the NRA. It may not actually change anything in Kali, but it would be a good gesture of their effectiveness.
     
  21. Boats

    Boats member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,705
    Location:
    Oregon
    I'd rather be able to do mental gyrations in the first place than always see the blinkered view of the world.:D Few people, even back in the day, were political purists falling in line with Patrick Henry and "Give me liberty or give me death." Reality has to be dealt with as we find it not as we wish it to be.

    Uh, yes, the only pressure that matters to the Administration is pro-2A folks who want the AWB killed.:rolleyes: Newsflash! We are a noisy and potent minority if you haven't been paying attention. I am sure that just like me, you all have some gunowning friends who don't give a second thought to the AWB unless you bring it up first. Those folks are the reason we even have to watch favorable politicians tiptoe through this minefield of gun control.

    So yes, let's all castigate Bush for being where the sheeple are on this one. I am so certain it is a heartfelt committment from Jr., rather than a calculated position. A good Prince has henchmen do his dirty work for him while maintaining his popularity before the masses. What do you think Tom DeLay is for? I am very sure that one Texan in the House will get his marching orders on the AWB very distinctly. Bush knows he couldn't push this through the more conservative base of the House of Reps even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Karl Rove will see to it that nothing unusual happens absent another sniper/Columbine level incident making non-passage politically suicidal.

    And like it or not, just like the vast majority of people with jobs or careers, the Bush White House is not going to chance throwing everything away to please a minority of perpetually disgruntled folks whose views cannot be squared with the majority of satisfied consumers.

    The real political problem we have is with those shooters we all know who think that their hunting rifles and shotguns are sacrosanct and the AWB doesn't matter. It is just easier for us to believe that Bush's political machinations geared towards playing both ends against the middle on a very emotionally charged topic are going to be our downfall if the new AWB hits his desk. If it has come down to praying for a veto, then the war was lost when the early shots were fired, not in the last stand, and we'd be playing the role of the French Army.:D
     
  22. Ian

    Ian Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,857
    But if you don't vote for the Republican, a Democrat will win!

    Bush can put all his weight behind a new (and likely worse) AW ban, and the get re-elected by a bunch of duck hunter who are scared that a Democrat would be even worse. :barf:
     
  23. Waitone

    Waitone Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,406
    Location:
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    From Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

    politician--2 a : a person engaged in party politics as a profession b : a person primarily interested in political office for selfish or other narrow usually short-sighted reasons

    leader--2 : a person who leads: as a : GUIDE, CONDUCTOR b (1) : a person who directs a military force or unit (2) : a person who has commanding authority or influence c (1) : the principal officer of a British political party (2) : a party member chosen to manage party activities in a legislative body (3) : such a party member presiding over the whole legislative body when the party constitutes a majority d (1) : CONDUCTOR c (2) : a first or principal performer of a group

    Neither of the two shall meet.

    Bush will not burn political capital fighting for or against the AWB. He will gladly do what congress asks him to do. Not at the top of his priority list.

    If you thought by electing Dubya to the presidency you were electing someone who supported the constitution, you are sadly mistaking. He is a politician interested in his own power and the power of his selected party.

    You will not get principaled leadership out of a politician. He needs to be scuffed up periodically just to let him know his base will not tolerate being abused.

    Remember, the joker signed the Campaign Finance Control Bill.
     
  24. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    6,513
    Location:
    Winter Haven, FL
    Yep. That is why Bush can confidently state he is all for renewing an AW ban. In his view, we don't have any other choice.

    Wrong! I will not vote for Bush if he signs an AW ban. If he does that, there is no difference between him and a democrat and I will not reward Bush for screwing me over.
     
  25. T.Stahl

    T.Stahl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    739
    Location:
    near Hamburg/Germany
    (S)He who thinks that politicians will return any freedoms they managed to take away from you is either a day-dreamer or an incurable optimist.

    Note to self: Cancel any thoughts about moving to the USA in a couple of years.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page