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USAF ejection seat rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by hso, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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  2. mokin

    mokin Member

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    Pretty cool little rifle.

    Made me think of a buddy who worked in the seat shop. "Meet your maker in a Martin Baker!"
     
  3. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    My son in law works on the F-35 as an Egress Specialist so I’m asking him for confirmation, if the info is unclassified
     
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  4. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    Used only in certain theaters.
     
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  5. Flatbush Harry

    Flatbush Harry Member

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    I used to fly with Uncle Sammy's Flying Circus back in the late '60s. I never carried a rifle in a Century series tactical airplane in SE Asia (no room). If you got into a shootout on the ground, you were gonna be dead real soon.

    Some folks MMV...I was lucky not to ever find out.

    Harry
     
  6. Sody82

    Sody82 Member

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    Id like to get one of them to put in my boat lol
     
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  7. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Colt made a 10.5 inch barreled AR/M16 in the early '60s with a skinny round forearm, two position collapsing stock (short as it gets and long as it gets) and a sawed off pistol grip as their "Aircrew Survival Weapon"

    I believe one of the Ezell Small Arms of the World has a picture and maybe a mention. Such a thing with a flat top ( original had carry handle and front tower) and folding front and rear would be very small.

    With two or three magazines ( even 20 rounders) it would beat the heck out of being in a bad place waiting for a Jolly Green with a handgun

    Biggest issues I have with giving air crew a survival gun is that they don't train with them regularly and have to hope the sights are someplace close every time they change aircraft.

    -kBob
     
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  8. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    So......does it say "Not for use on enemy combatants" on it like the M6? :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  9. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    $2.7 million, divided by 2,700 = $1k each. Where do I sign up for one?

    Looks to be, contrary to many government programs, quite a bargain.
     
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  10. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Can't blame them for wanting a bit more whoopee in their cushion while flying over ISIS controlled/infested areas.
     
  11. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    The Air Force has guns?

    (just kidding, guys) A few years before I retired, our aircrew were being issued SIG P-228s.

    I've known a couple guys who earned the "Martin Baker Fan Club" patches for their flight jackets. Anyway, I'm sure Scott O'Grady would've felt a little better with the rifle and four mags than just the M9 he had at the time (I had a great weekend at Piancavallo ruined when he got shot down, had to return to my unit and get ready to help look for him, which didn't end up happening).
     
  12. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    Sure beats a 1911 in a tight place!

     
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  13. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I guess I don’t know much about ejection seats. The seat separates from the pilot after ejection, so how does the gun stay with the pilot?
     
  14. mcb

    mcb Member

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    That whole deal was shady as f*** by the government. They put out a request for proposal (fedbizopps) for that rifle like two years ago. A bunch of different AR makers bid on the contract and sent in the requisite sample rifles. The government played with the samples got all the good ideas and then sent the samples back and did not award the contract to anyone. They just built them in house steeling the best ideas from the various submission guns. Very shady...
     
  15. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    The kit hangs below the pilot from a lanyard when he separates from the seat. Here's some info on the ACES II, a seat in common use in the AF.

    http://www.ejectionsite.com/a10aces.htm

    So the RFP (that they paid for) showed them that there wasn't anything out there substantially better than what they could easily organically assemble from COTs parts, and you're saying it's shady that they put the commerical parts together in house instead of paying a contractor a big markup to put the parts together for them across the street?
     
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  16. rbernie
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    rbernie Contributing Member

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    Just as coloration to this - the FAR pretty much states that bid costs are recoverable if the RFP is not awarded. So, it's not like the bidders somehow lost IP or money in responding to the RFP - they just lost the ability to make money by federating COTS gear into a new weapon.
     
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  17. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    I'm Joe Taxpayer, and I endorse this method!

    For once, we're not buying a solid gold toilet seat from some Senator's district. . .
     
  18. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Good stuff, thank you!
     
  19. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Except they were stealing IP and not paying for it.
     
  20. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Nope the only people with protected IP were the companies who designed the actual commercial parts, and the .gov bought the parts from them. How to put together an AR from COTs parts is not protected IP and the specific packing cube requirements governing barrel length, etc came from the AF. The offeror had nothing of value to sell except other people's ideas, therefore the AF bought from those other people, not the Offeror. Perfectly legal and logical, there's a reason you didn't see a successful protest or lawsuit.
     
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  21. entropy

    entropy Member

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    I prefer the Luftwaffe's idea of an 'Egress survival weapon' (Imagine how long that word would be in German!)

    A Sauer Drilling.
     
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  22. rbernie
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    rbernie Contributing Member

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    I've probably proposed several billion dollars worth of weapons system work to the government over the last forty (40) years. In every case, the contents of the proposal were delivered as company proprietary data under some form of limited data rights, meaning that the .gov could not share it with my competitors but had ownership of the data within the context of the RFP. No theft of IP is needed if the IP is incorporated into the proposal and delivered under data rights that allow the .gov to assert some ownership of the contents of the proposal. The CFR makes it very clear that the .gov can assert ownership of IP contained in a proposal :

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/48/252.227-7016

    This is no different than an RFI : the .gov goes fishing for ideas to solve an unmet requirement, and if they get enough responses they either move to a 'buy' or they move to develop the capability. That development activity can be solicited from either a .gov lab, an FFRDC, or industry (via Sole Source J&A or competitive RFP).

    And there ya have it.
     
  23. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Yeah, I wonder where they expected to be forced down. Not much big game to subsist on in France or England. Maybe they were planning on operations over the various African colonies.
     
  24. mcb

    mcb Member

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    You guys might be correct but its still shady as f***. Those companies did a lot of research to find the parts that met the AF requirements. They also put a fair amount of cost into testing to show that those components worked together and that required some engineering investment. They had to tune gas systems etc to go with the various non-standard parts use in this systems. So it might not have been a theft of IP in a legal sense but there was a lot of engineering done anticipating it would be recouped in a contract and the AF stole that research/engineering effort and built it themselves. Shady as f*** and makes companies less likely to respond to RFPs from that group in the future. It definitely pissed some people off. If your going to build it yourself then do it yourself don't let someone else do it under the guise you might buy it from them. There is a big difference between a RFP and a RFI. One has and expectation of a contract at the end. Don't create a RFP and use it as a stealth RFI, not cool.
     
  25. Craig_VA
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    Craig_VA Contributing Member

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