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USCCA Sued in Federal Court: Refused to Cover Platinum Member

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by old lady new shooter, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Andrew Branca reports today that the US Concealed Carry Association is being sued by a Platinum Member for refusal to cover her defense costs up to the policy limit of $150K. (Her actual costs have actually already exceeded that limit, but the complaint alleges that USCCA only paid $50K despite proper demand having been made for the remainder of the limit amount.)

    I don't want to restate his whole article here, but I recommend reading it at
    https://lawofselfdefense.com/uscca-sued-in-federal-court-refused-to-cover-platinum-member/ .

    You have to be a member of his website to read it, but there is a free level of membership that allows you to read current articles.

    Note that he asked USCCA to comment and at the bottom of the article has reproduced their response.

    The complaint is also reproduced in full.
     
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  2. Pat Riot
    • Contributing Member

    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    OMG...I couldn’t finish reading the blather. I will wait for the movie...
     
  3. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Doesn't look like a good outcome for USCCA. Why pay out $50,000 in defense money and say the limit is met? Many questions to be answered at trial and in the civil case.
     
  4. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    I have always treated them (USCCA) as a scam. It just sounded like a scam to me from the beginning.
     
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  5. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    All insurance is a scam. They make money by not paying out as much as you pay in Duh.

    My wife has refused to drop her full coverage on her car, I haven’t had any ever since we paid cash for my truck back in 06 when new. (the liability is a scam too) she got a hail storm. Insurance sent her $500, body shop said it’s about $1200 to fix. Real winner since she hasn’t had a claim that met the deductible since it was new in 09.
     
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  6. Reinz

    Reinz Member

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    I did not read word for word. But what I did read seems like a bait and switch. You think you are going to read facts of the case but they are actually pimping for a competitor of USCCA, LOSD.

    BTW- I read it without signing up, the whole article popped up fine.
     
  7. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Would not be surprised if the insured acted against advise of Counsel, and created the additional expenses--people do stupid things in court (and out of it).
    Also, really hard to write a policy which says "we only pay if you have a hope of winning, please do not involve us in "bad" shoots."

    Sadly, there is almost nothhing in this world that is a panacea.
     
  8. patmccoy

    patmccoy Member

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    [QUOTEAll insurance is a scam. They make money by not paying out as much as you pay in Duh.][/QUOTE]

    Nope. They make their money by investing the premiums. Not at all unusual for insurance companies to lose money on the claims vs premiums.
     
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  9. newfalguy101

    newfalguy101 Member

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    Nope. They make their money by investing the premiums. Not at all unusual for insurance companies to lose money on the claims vs premiums.[/QUOTE]

    While I am sure technically correct...the amount of time MONEY and effort expended to avoid paying is legendary ( talking about ins industry as a whole not USSCA )
     
  10. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    You have to hire an attorney to get an insurance company, any insurance company, to pay out. It's that simple. I have a relative (attorney) whose business is suing insurance companies. He has made a fortune (easily worth millions) doing that for years. Sad fact but think about this. All insurance companies employ attorneys, even your insurance company. Why would anyone deal with an insurance company without an attorney representing you. Your insurance company isn't going to represent you, they represent themselves. I don't care what they say.

    His standard advice to anyone in the family is call him first before you deal with any insurance company. He'll contact all insurance companies involved. He has a friends and family discount. ;) Relatives don't play the insurance game, they let him play it. Insurance is a marketing scam.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  11. newfalguy101

    newfalguy101 Member

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    Thats not entirely accurate, speaking from firsthand knowledge where I was sued, and State Farm paid a local law firm to represent me....they also paid out the settlement....did not cost me a dime and never saw the inside of the court, nor even their office.
     
  12. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    Well, it did cost you a dime because you probably already paid your insurance company plenty.

    That law firm was working for your insurance company because they hired them. If you didn't pay that law firm they weren't working for you.

    I don't want to know the details but it sounds like your insurance company was looking out after their interests also.

    But anyway, this isn't firearms related so back to the OP.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    LOSD is Branca's website.

    He does recommend a different insurance, one that does not have a payout limit. I can't remember the name of it. I did check into it, the price is reasonable if you have a carry permit. Here in AZ no permit is required to carry but I'm going to get one anyway, to get the reciprocity with other states.
     
  14. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I think the NRA one may have been like that, they would only pay if THEY thought it was a "good" shoot.
     
  15. Aloha8

    Aloha8 Member

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    He recommends CCW Safe, and he has a DVD course on carry insurance with info on other options.

    He has a couple of blog posts on this situation (and goes on at. length. about it). It appears that the situation isn't as one-sided as it seems -- that is, the shooting may not have been self-defense -- but for sure USCCA capped the shooter at $50K. ...waiting for more info.
     
  16. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Not exactly. They paid only after the defendant won in court.
     
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  17. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Very common down here in paradise (south florida) for folks to need attorneys when dealing with insurance companies - particularly after a hurricane... There's actually a growth business called a "public adjuster" that brings an entire team to evaluate damage to your property - then puts together the package needed for court (public adjustor, building contractor, attorney - and any others needed to prove your claim...). The public adjuster works for you - not the insurance company and their only fees come from any recovery (above and beyond what your insurance outfit offered initially...). I'm told that when the insurance outfit gets the package of what it will actually take to restore your property - they usually promptly settle to avoid the beating they'll take if it goes to court....

    Yes, there are reputable companies that deal fairly - but there are also too many of the other kinds as well -whether it's firearms related or otherwise, in my opinion...
     
  18. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Yes, that's right. Thanks for the clarification.

    So how many people have a few hundred thousand dollars available to pay attorney fees in the hope of getting reimbursed after the fact? And would be financially OK if they lost it?
     
  19. Outlaw75

    Outlaw75 Member

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    That's what's a bit odd about this. The woman in question doesn't go to trial until May 2020 for Second Degree Murder. I would have thought that most companies wouldn't have paid anything until after guilt or innocence has been determined.
     
  20. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I'm not an insurance lawyer (though I have had a few fights with insurance companies on behalf of clients), but there are some pretty serious difficulties in offering real insurance in this space. Most (all?) states have laws that would make it illegal to offer insurance covering intentional criminal acts. Since the covered matter is about whether the conduct was criminal, this basically means that, at some level, the coverage has to be hocus-pocus BS. If it worked exactly the way the customer would want (and probably expect) it to work, then it would be illegal.

    I can't say for sure that these products are all garbage... but I'll say that I don't fool with them.
     
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  21. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    That's how these policies/products usually work. But most other insurance that people are familiar with pay defense costs as you go and then liability if you get hit.
     
  22. Outlaw75

    Outlaw75 Member

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    Right. And according to this she bought the gun 12 days prior to the shooting, at which time she signed up for USCCA and another SD insurance policy. So they got what, one premium from her? Looks a bit sketchy to me.

    https://www.thetowntalk.com/story/n...lted-payments-self-defense-policy/4023210002/
     
  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    No, and you do NOT want to have such a contract.
     
  24. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    These policies do not cover the policy-holders' liability. The pay for legal expenses.

    They are not.

    I do not know anyone who could afford the costs of a legal defense--even one infovling the lwaful drawing of a gun, if the act results in criminal charges.

    Mort importantly, the likelihood of conviction is much higher if the defendant cannot afford the costs of really good attorneys, private investigators, and expert witnesses.

    And those costs must be paid immediately as incurred. No installment plan.

    As stated above, Attorney Andrew Branca has a DVD course on carry insurance.



     
  25. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Few people understand what they are buying when they pay for insurance. They are shocked when the insurance company says your policy did not cover something because you don't have that rider. Most people base their insurance decisions on cost and insurance agents tend to like that because they get paid nothing unless you buy something.

    There are people who do not understand that their homeowners policy does not cover damage from floods unless they buy flood insurance. Most homeowner policies these days don't cover mold damage, unless you get a rider. Most HO policies don't cover much in the way of guns, coins, or jewelry unless you buy a rider.

    I have had pretty decent experiences with insurance companies over the years, including a number of different health insurers. You sometimes have to get after them but I have found their customer service people and claims people are quite happy to help you but you have to do your part. And part of it is as simple as getting the forms filled out right.

    I don't know a lot about self defense insurance, and my understanding is it technically not actual insurance.

    Incidentally, you do not buy liability insurance primarily to cover the cost of damages but to cover the cost of litigation. The insurance company agrees to cover the litigation costs that most of us could never afford in even relatively minor cases.
     
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