Using motor oil on guns.
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Here's some stats, though non-comprehensive. Some of this comes from THR member Gun Slinger in the older Mobil 1 thread and some is from the Rem Oil MSDS.
Mobil 1 5W30
Pour point: -65.2 F
Flash point: +446.0 F
Viscosity at 100 degress Fahrenheit: 64.8 cSt
Viscosity at 212 degrees Fahrenheit: 11.3 cSt
Transient operating range: 511.2 F
Viscosity index: 171
MILITEC-1
Pour point: -45.0 F
Flash point: +455.0 F
Viscosity at 100 degress Fahrenheit: 43.41 cSt
Viscosity at 212 degrees Fahrenheit: 5.63 cSt
Transient operating range: 500.0 F
Viscosity index: 63
Rem Oil
Pour point: ???
Flash point: 105 F
Viscosity at 100 degress Fahrenheit: 25 cSt
Viscosity at 212 degrees Fahrenheit: ???
Transient operating range: ???
Viscosity index: ???
http://www.remington.com/~/media/Files/MSDS/MSDS-RemOil_Liquid.ashx
So Rem Oil is really thin out of the bottle, although it presumably thickens up as the carrier evaporates. However, its primary lubricity additive seems to be solubilized PTFE, which I've never been convinced is all that effective at preventing metal wear in an oil setting.
Empirically, from years of personal experience with both in an AR, an AK, and a couple of S&W's, I find Mobil 1 lubricates better, resists evaporation far longer, and keeps carbon from accreting better.
Webologist
Member
Mobile 1 fan here as well. It does a great job reducing wear on internals, stays wet, meaning most cleaning is nothing more than wiping off the old dirty oil and applying a coat of fresh clean oil. Unlike Hoppes, it doesn't burn off internals or evaporate off the barrel after it heats up. Hoppes also seems to leave a sludge behind as it evaporates. No rust on any gun.
I also put a thin coat of Tetra grease over the Mobile 1 oil in high wear areas, like slide grooves, bolt, barrel bushing, revolver drag line, etc. Anyplace I see any wear whatsoever. Guns stay like new and are easy to clean.
Only the inside of the barrel, revolver chambers and gas rings need scrubbing with solvent.
I also put a thin coat of Tetra grease over the Mobile 1 oil in high wear areas, like slide grooves, bolt, barrel bushing, revolver drag line, etc. Anyplace I see any wear whatsoever. Guns stay like new and are easy to clean.
Only the inside of the barrel, revolver chambers and gas rings need scrubbing with solvent.
45_auto
Member
benezra said:
Here's some stats on castor oil. Which particular stats on the oils that you posted make you believe that any of them are better for gun lubrication than plain old castor oil?
Castor oil
Pour point: -27.4 F
Flash point: +446.0 F
Viscosity at 100 degress Fahrenheit: 259-325 cSt
Viscosity at 130 degrees Fahrenheit: 98-130 cSt
Transient operating range: 473.4 F
Viscosity index: 135
From:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/kinematic-viscosity-d_397.html
http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/1471/9/09_chapter 3.pdf
I have been using synthetic tractor grease for gun grease and am switching over from gun oil to Red Line synthetic for gun oil. I use Red Line in the race car so it is in inventory. I might use Mobil 1 instead as it has rust inhibitors in it. I also have that in inventory as we add a little to the race car's engine for rust prevention.
With the grease, I found with petroleum grease, the lubricant evaporates with time and I wnd with a gooey mess of solids left over. The synthetic does not seem to do that.
I do use grease on the rails of the bolt carrier of my AR. I am in the "If it slides, grease it, if it rotates, oil it" camp. I have no operating problems and the action does not dry out over time as with oil. Once in a while, if I need to spot lubricate, I will spritz a bit a oil into the upper.
With the grease, I found with petroleum grease, the lubricant evaporates with time and I wnd with a gooey mess of solids left over. The synthetic does not seem to do that.
I do use grease on the rails of the bolt carrier of my AR. I am in the "If it slides, grease it, if it rotates, oil it" camp. I have no operating problems and the action does not dry out over time as with oil. Once in a while, if I need to spot lubricate, I will spritz a bit a oil into the upper.
Nom de Forum
Member
I just hafta believe that sperm whale oil is expensive can you imagine getting that sucker to set still while you got it from him and also I don't think I could hold my breath that long. Now if I haven't been thrown off of here yet on a serious note I got this recipe out of a magazine guns and ammo or gun tests or one of them anyway I quart of Mobil 1 ,1 quart of ATF fluid ,1 can stp,1 can marvel mystery oil put the lime in the coconut and shake it all up makes a lot of lube probably enough for you and you can wi. The rest to the kids I think the most important thing is to wipe parts down with soft lint free cloth when you are done what you want is a gilf on the parts
Gilf was supposed to be film big fingers small keyboard also if you want use castor oil I used to run it in the gas in my dirt bike and it smelled like a bug bomb also seeing how it comes from seeds when it cooks and then cools it turns to something like a cross between jello and glue
45_auto
Member
Nom de Forum said:
I've found that if you can get your AR to keep the castor oil down, you can then shoot the crap out of it!
morcey2
Member
It's STP Oil Treatment, not Fuel Treatment.
Chainsaw76
Member
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Back in the 80's when I was in the US Army, all we had for lube with rare exception was 10 wt and 30 wt motor oil. Used it on everything from our .45's to the 105MM Main Gun on our tanks. MG's worked well with it too.
Every couple of years, we'd get a gallon of real bore cleaner for the cannon, and we'd have to run it with some motor oil as it was "dry" and would allow rust if not blended with the oil.
I have plenty of the hi-tech gun lubes, but I'm switching to synthetic.
jim
Every couple of years, we'd get a gallon of real bore cleaner for the cannon, and we'd have to run it with some motor oil as it was "dry" and would allow rust if not blended with the oil.
I have plenty of the hi-tech gun lubes, but I'm switching to synthetic.
jim
bigride
Member
This was fun. Let's do it again in about six months.
tactikel
Member
Actually Sperm Whale Oil is an outstanding lubricant. My grandfather had an old gun cleaning kit (pre-war) that my Dad got after he passed away. It had a bottle of SWO. Dad used it sparingly on all his guns. The only drawback was that after a few years it became gummy and needed to be cleaned out.
It was used to lubricate timepieces back in the day. It was surreal to hold a bottle of oil that came from a Whale that lived 90 years ago, was harpooned and rendered on a Norwegian whaler. Totally irreplaceable.
I use CLP and Kroil these days.
It was used to lubricate timepieces back in the day. It was surreal to hold a bottle of oil that came from a Whale that lived 90 years ago, was harpooned and rendered on a Norwegian whaler. Totally irreplaceable.
I use CLP and Kroil these days.
Zach S
Member
Try squeezing the bottle as much as possible and then let the suction fill the bottle as far as it can - little easier than trying to get the lid off....
As many times as I've used that trick in other situations, I am amazed I didnt think of that when filling that bottle up...
I think I'm going to try the ATF STP Mobile 1 Marvel Mystery mix I've seen mentioned, just so I have an actual idea of what I'm using, instead of the "random auto oils drained into a jug" that I've been using on guns, and putting in my beater truck.
Do you guys have any prefrence for the ATF? I just put a built transmission in my Caprice, so I have plenty of dex/merc, but I have at least one quart of type F left over from my hot rod days. Almost put it in the Caprice...
Nom de Forum
Member
After reading this thread I have decided I am going to start buying Mobil 1 and Castor Oil. Mix it together and repackage it into 1 ounce bottles, label it Spurm Caster Wail Oyl and sell it for $10 a bottle to rubes at gun shows. I should be able to retire after one year on the show circuit.
Sport45
Member
ron b said:
After cleaning my revolvers with Ed's Red I find I don't have to use any supplemental lube. They're ready to go.
Autopistols only need a drop of LP run down each of the rails and rifles generally get a little grease on the bolts and locking lugs.
Elkins45
Member
There's somebody selling a red/pink lubricating oil for $7-8 that I'm 99% sure is just some sort of ATF mix. I've seen it on gun show tables and in a couple of stores but I can't remember the name on the label.
In response to a different question: I used Dextron when I mixed up my ATF blend but I don't know that the other versions wouldn't work just as well.
ohbythebay
Member
Sigh...
I really shake my head when I read threads like this. Oil is oil, right ? NOT
Would you put Mobile 1 in a sewing machine? Would you put 3 in 1 oil in a V8 ?
There is such a narrow focus with people on what features of a lubricant apply to what uses. Hey, why not use virgin olive oil ?
I highly suggest you guys read DIY Guys testing on top products. I can tell you this. Mobile 1 has a MUCH higher drag on your actions than the top 3 products in his list of 40+
READ HERE
I am amazed that people will pay as much as they do for firearms and then cheapo out on their cleaners and lubes.
I really shake my head when I read threads like this. Oil is oil, right ? NOT
Would you put Mobile 1 in a sewing machine? Would you put 3 in 1 oil in a V8 ?
There is such a narrow focus with people on what features of a lubricant apply to what uses. Hey, why not use virgin olive oil ?
I highly suggest you guys read DIY Guys testing on top products. I can tell you this. Mobile 1 has a MUCH higher drag on your actions than the top 3 products in his list of 40+
READ HERE
I am amazed that people will pay as much as they do for firearms and then cheapo out on their cleaners and lubes.
morcey2
Member
ohbythebay, I've read that and I have one minor nit-pick with their results. I think the corrosion resistance test would have been different if they had used blued or parkerized steel instead of in-the-white steel.
Drag on the action is of little use on a bolt action. I can see that on semi-autos though.
Matt
Drag on the action is of little use on a bolt action. I can see that on semi-autos though.
Matt
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Castor oil is actually an excellent lubricant, which is why it was used so long as the crankcase oil of aircraft engines. With a good additive pack, it would probably work fine as a short-term gun oil. The problem with castor oil though is that it is susceptible to oxidation (unlike polyalphaolefins in Group IV based synthetic oils), which is why castor oil turns to gum in a relatively short time. Hence castor oil is no longer used as an engine lubricant (or a gun lubricant) even though its lubrication qualities are quite good.
So I'll ask you the same question...which particular stats on Rem Oil (petroleum distillate based) or CLP make them better gun lubricants than a good group IV based PAO synthetic multiviscosity oil in the 0W20 to 5W30 range with a decent additive pack? If you are concerned about the ZDDP content of Mobil 1 EP, Mobil 1 Delvac of the same viscosity would certainly address that particular issue, would it not?
Or to use the flat-tappet-cam analogy mentioned upthread, how long do you think the cam lobes and lifters of a flat-tappet engine would last at high RPM if you completely replaced the oil with CLP or Rem Oil?
The thing is, many (perhaps most) mass-market gun oils are intended to carry out multiple purposes, with corrosion protection as job #1 and lubrication as a distant second. For corrosion protection on the exterior of a firearm, you need a very thin film and/or high solvent concentration, which are great for preserving a gun's exterior finish but which compromise its lubrication qualities to some degree. Hence I think it is beneficial, particularly for semiautos, to use an internal lubricant that is optimized as a lubricant, and use the multipurpose products on the exterior where the primary concern is preventing oxidation and where thicker lubricants would be too messy.
Mobil 1 is too thick for a sewing machine, but I'd darn sure use some other modern synthetic oil in place of 3 in 1, which in my experience turns to gum over time. And I use Mobil 1 in my car specifically *because* it is a better lubricant than petroleum-distillate-based oils.
If virgin olive oil made a better gun lubricant than a Group IV PAO based synthetic with a good additive pack, I'd use it. It doesn't; olive oil doesn't prevent corrosion all that well, doesn't prevent wear, and is an inferior lubricant, which is reason enough not to use it.
"Drag on the action" from a good oil is negligible compared to the drag the oil *prevents*. The test you linked made the following assumption:
For two flat plates, that makes sense. For a bolt-action, that might make sense. For a semiauto, that is a good way to hasten galling and promote carbon buildup, IMO, particularly something like an AR or AK where you have a lot of gas and carbon in the receiver. Over time on a "dry" surface, the powder residue accretes and cements into place, and can eventually hinder cycling, whereas a good oil will keep the carbon suspended for thousands of rounds as long as the lubrication isn't allowed to dry out.
In empirical testing, it has been shown many times that AR's and AK's work more reliably under adverse conditions when they are run wet than when they are run dry, and a good oil will not only protect the bearing surfaces better, it will form a thicker and more persistent film that stays "wet" longer.
So using a top grade synthetic oil in an AR rather than some petroleum distillate with magic teflon elves in it, or a decent lubricant diluted by a petroleum based solvent, is "cheaping out"?
I run what I find works best and most reliably for me, which is what pretty much everyone does, methinks.
Elkins45
Member
Honestly, I have to think the lubricating qualities of a gun oil matter less that the corrosion protective ones in most cases. I can't ever remember having a functional failure caused by poor lubrication, but I can remember instances where a surface I thought was protected ended up with a coating of rust.
I promise that I will stop using my ATF homebrew the very moment it fails to provide adequate lubrication.
I promise that I will stop using my ATF homebrew the very moment it fails to provide adequate lubrication.
P5 Guy
Member
Could one substitute cod liver oil for sperm whale oil?
morcey2
Member
Depends on what you're cooking.
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