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Using prescription drug database to deny 2a rights: is this possible?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Highland Ranger, Jan 7, 2013.

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  1. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

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    One of the requirements for EMR applications to be certified is to be able to give a close to real time feed of every physician encounter, including procedures and icd9/10 codes. So, even though not implemented, the ability to provide the government feed is already in place.
     
  2. Fryerpower

    Fryerpower Member

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    Private? Go do some research on what the FAA is allowed to do with pilot's medical records. Yes, I know it is because it is related to the pilot applying for a medical check to verify that he/she is fit to fly, but they can go anywhere and look at anything and heaven help you if you did not tell them about it first!

    Pilot's licenses are issued for life. Medicals have to be renewed periodically. I wonder when a medical "check up" is going to be required to keep my CCW/HCP...

    Jim
     
  3. swathdiver

    swathdiver Member

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    Some folks have no problem with big government intervention. They forget that if you give them an inch, they take a mile.
     
  4. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Nonetheless, this has been around for a very long time and is most likely not going away. If it's not acceptable to you, you can pursue avenues available under our system to change things.

    And in any case, this is not an appropriate subject for discussion in this thread or on this board.
     
  5. Rob G

    Rob G Member

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    Yes they can, but this is a condition of having a pilot's license and somewhere in the mounds of paperwork you sign is a form specifically granting them that permission. It's very similiar to when I held a CDL and I had to agree to turn over certain medical information so that I could verify I was fit to drive. It was a requirement of the license and I agreed to it.

    Having your private medical records turned over to the government without your knowledge or consent is a whole different scenario
     
  6. brnmw

    brnmw Member

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    Funny thing about all this... In these times we are all living in, poor times has made life much harder on many people. I myself once had a great life, job, positive attitude, etc... etc... well up until 2010 things have not been that wonderful. I have had to look at myself in the mirror and sometimes do not like what I see at times, I have wondered if maybe I may need meds to make me happier.... would it? (Don't know... but I doubt that it would, why? Because people's problems including mine can be very real and tangible.) I refuse to take prescribed pills, because I know what is wrong in my life and don't need to resort to such things. I am not crazy, suicidal, or angry in any way... just not really happy with the way things are right now, but they will get better. The real scary aspect unfortunately is that there are people that really do need medical help and won't get it... many of them do not even know they are sick, until it's too late. So for those of us who maybe need help on a temporary level and have actually gone to an MD and now are on some type of medication this could very well hurt them in the future. I hate to say it but people with more debilitating permanent mental issues.... the responsible thing would be to not ever even consider having a gun in your possession. The best part of this country should be "Innocent till proven guilty" ... not "guilty till proven innocent." With the aspect of "What med's are you on?" > "Ownership denied!" makes thing a little more sticky if you ask me, but if the treatment is powerful enough and well documented... than I can't argue with someone not being able to own a gun.
     
  7. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    It never has been. The "innocent until proven guilty" business is not well understood and really has a very limited application.

    "Innocent until proven guilty" is a rather imprecise reference to the technical, legal rule describing the prosecution's burden of proof in a trial on a criminal charge. In a trail on a criminal charge, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime. The defendant in a trial on a criminal charge is presumed to be innocent, but that presumption is rebuttable if the prosecution, in the opinion of the jury, meets its burden of proof. If the prosecution fails to meet its burden of proof, the defendant is entitled to a verdict of "not guilty." And from all of that we get the nice sound bite, "innocent until proven guilty."

    But that concept doesn't apply universally to other sorts of things. It has generally always been the case that, if something requires certain qualifications, it's your responsibility to show that you have those qualifications. If you want a license to lawfully drive a car on the public roads, you will need to take one of more tests and show that you satisfy whatever qualifications there are for getting (and keeping) that license. If you want a license to be a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant or engage in a number of professions or trades, you will need to demonstrate that you satisfy the requirements.

    Showing that you meet required qualifications to do or have something has nothing to do with "innocent until proven guilty."
     
  8. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    Unless you sign the form that they shove under your nose in every doctors office that says you will allow government agencies to share your health information.

    If you just sign everything they shove at you w/o reading it ... you already have.
     
  9. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    And exactly what form would that be? How about providing us a copy of one such form.

    Every form of that sort I've seen is very specific and limited about to whom the information may be disclosed and for what purposes.
     
  10. zorro45

    zorro45 Member

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    This is not tin foil hat stuff. There are at least two types of databases. One as mentioned is state- based usually by the State Dept. Public Health or State DEA to look for doctor shopping for getting multiple Schedule 2 and Schedule 3 Rxs. It is really informational, but if a doctor gets these reports and then queries the patient (and the patient lies) they are probably not getting any more Rxs for those drugs, or the prescribers will decide who will be the single prescriber so the additional doctors do not get "scammed" into providing excessive amounts of these potentially dangerous drugs.
    The second database is a nationwide prescription drug database. All that is needed to access this for a particular patient is checking off a box which states that the patient has given the prescriber permission to access this. This is about 85% correct at the present time. This is used AT PRESENT for checking the patients' stated drug list against their actual prescriptions, to make sure nothing has been forgotten, checking dosages, etc. It is accessible through most of the new Electronic Medical Records which your doctors have been "incentivized" to put in place.There are also databases kept by insurers for their billing function. If you present an Rx and expect your insurance to cover it, it will probably end up in at least two of these unless it is Schedule 2 (Morphine, Percocet, etc.) or Schedule 3 (Valium, Vicodin, etc.)Then you'll be in all three.
    Does this make anyone feel better? It shouldn't.
     
  11. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Yes, there are data bases and yes information will need to be disclosed (especially if you are expecting someone besides you to pay for your prescription drugs). But HIPAA still limits disclosure and use of that information. HIPAA would need to be changed to change the restrictions on use and disclosure.

    Since the HIPAA confidentiality rules are regulations, proposed changes would have to be first published and public comment invited. Have any such changes to HIPAA been proposed?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  12. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    All it would be is a a way to marginalize and stigmatize mental illness, and give people who need treatment a reason not to seek it.
     
  13. sonick808

    sonick808 Member

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    saw my GP today for old man checkup. He said he would tell anyone seeking records for such a purpose to get bent. Also said that a huge number, if not a majority of physicians are at odds with the grabber tendencies of the AMA. Nice to hear.
     
  14. Rob G

    Rob G Member

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    @Sonick808 - That is the general attitude of the entire medical community. None of them (or at least very few) would support the repeal of HIPAA or the type of privacy invasion needed to enforce this type of ban.
     
  15. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    CDL: Commercial Driver's License?

    If insulin dependent diabetics are prone to fainting (I do not know if this is true or false), it makes sense to require a doctor's note before renewing a license to drive a big truck.

    Can a commercial pilot be insulin dependent?
     
  16. Rob G

    Rob G Member

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    It's OT for this thread but I'll answer it. The answer is, it's quite possible. For a lot of diabetics the first sign that their glucose level is too high or too low is when it start effecting their behavior. High sugar tends to cause people to act drunk. Low sugar tends to make them pass out.
     
  17. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    And just one more OT, if you know someone is diabetic, and they're acting weird, feed them. Feed them now! Preferably something high in sugar. Candy, soda pop, lots of sugar.

    If their sugar is too low, you might help a lot. And if their sugar is too high you won't do any harm.
     
  18. CLP

    CLP Member

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    These databases only keep tabs on scheduled drugs (opiates, sedatives, amphetamines, marinol, and other drugs of abuse). They don't collect info on mood stabilizers or antipsychotics which might be indicative of someone who's being treated for a severe mental illness. Not that it matters since the incidence of violence in the SMI population isn't significantly different than the general population (suicide is an exception, the rates are obviously higher). The group that is of concern are those with certain personality disorders that lack empathy or the ability to feel remorse (i.e. sociopaths); a group for which mood stabilizers and antipsychotics aren't really indicated or effective.
     
  19. NaturalDefensiveRights

    NaturalDefensiveRights member

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    [quote="Davek1977]
    Natural News often crossposts with Alex Jones' site infowars. If that doesn't tell you something about its credibility, I suggest you research Alex Jones a bit. His name should cause suspicion anytime its attached to "news" of ANY kind. IMO, he's a whacko who sees conspiracy in the most mundane of things, and only serves to fuel the paranoid delusional [/quote]

    It doesn't tell me anything about its credibility since I've never come across anything that wasn't credible from infowars, except minor inaccuracies. All you can find when "researching" Alex Jones is a lot of personal attacks that don't amount to jack or squat. There's never anything of substance; just a cult of mindless hecklers that just repeat the mantra that AJ is this, or AJ is that. Reminds me of grade school.
     
  20. Hollowdweller

    Hollowdweller Member

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    I have a buddy who is diabetic and he had some really bizarre behavior that did not involve guns but that was somewhat dangerous to himself and others.

    His wife was unsure of it's origin and she had him involuntarily committed. According to him he says they discovered his blood sugar was dropping precipitously, and that was what caused it.

    The NJ police were at his door not long after he went to the hospital rounding up his guns. Probably a good idea considering but yeah it can cause some wild behavior.
     
  21. swathdiver

    swathdiver Member

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    How did the police know? Were they notified by his wife who surrendered them voluntarily or by some other way. This is where it starts, here's the precidents they'll use in court. Remember after Katrina, the cops were going to law abiding citizens homes and taking their guns away in blatant violation of the constitution?
     
  22. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    And did the NJ police willingly give them back once the medical issue was resolved?
     
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