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Using Video Games For Self-Defense?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Zan, Mar 12, 2004.

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  1. Zan

    Zan Member

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    I've read in quite afew articals recently related to the findings, that video games, especially First Person Shooter (FPS) games help atune and coordinate skills for visual, hand-eye and thought processing with many young people. Infact, many studies show the these people who play games of this sort, score far better marks in the professional fields related to these types of games that thier tested and recruited in than people who don't play these types of games. (Tactical and Team-Warfare style games|Military and Law Enforcement professions)

    I'm wondering from you, if you play these types of games, do you notice a higher success rate in the way you train for self-defense apply these skills learned on a computer or console gaming system?


    The games listed in some of these articals were:

    Counter-Strike
    Medal Of Honor
    Rainbow Six
    Battlefield 1942
    Call Of Duty
     
  2. grnzbra

    grnzbra Member

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    Can't directly address the question of video games, but a couple weeks ago I had a short session on a F.A.T.S. simulator and did a lot worse there than I do against paper targets with a real gun. I think it's a matter of reflexes; the action is happening and you've got to keep up with it. All the bad habbits tend to show up as you try to outshoot the guy who is shooting at you.

    The only first person shooter game I've ever played was Lethal Enforcers on Nintendo. The difference between the two was that LE would have an occasional no shoot show up in the middle of a firefight, while F.A.T.S had you in the no shoot mode most of the time and the shoot target seemed to come out of nowhere.
     
  3. DMK

    DMK Member

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    There was a pretty cool Modern Marvels (History Channel) show on Firing Ranges. One of the segments was on a virtual range used by the U.S. Army. IIRC, they had some replica M-16s, SAWS, M2s, anti-tank rockets, etc setup in front of a huge screen where a computer displayed a battlefield where a number of scenarios could be played out.

    The military uses a number of simulators for all kinds of scenarios and equipment. However, the common denominator is that they all use the same controls as the real thing. They also always seem to use 3D environment. You don't get that with standard computer games and that is a huge detriment. On a PC video game, you are living in a world of tunnel vision. You just can't simulate a guy sneaking up behind you while another distracts you from the front.
     
  4. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    while i like the outcome of that study regarding FPS games, i really dont see how it could have much of an effect in real life scenarios.

    yes, your eyes are more attune to subtle changes on the screen, but you are looking at one environment and you KNOW what to expect, you KNOW what places the badguy could be hiding in, you KNOW what your reaction should be.

    in the real world, i'm not much more apt to notice the dangers. i say this because when i walk to work or home, i often dont see the moose thats munching on the tree branches until i'm right up on it, even though the moose is dark brown against the snowy white background.

    you'd think that after living in moose habitats my entire life, and playing fps the last 5 years i'd notice a 800 lb behemoth in my line of sight.


    not to mention how the brain wants to respond. in a game, if your player loses all health they die. and most often respawn immediately, or a few minutes later. while playing you are more likely to engage in risky tactics because what does it matter? in 5 seconds you'll be back in the game.
    not so in real life.

    FPS are fun and they probably do increase a persons ability to notice changes in the environment displayed on their monitor, but by no means are they combat simulators, imho.
     
  5. DigMe

    DigMe Member

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    When I lived in China I started playing Counterstrike because with Chinese college boys (my students) that was the thing to do. Many of them told me that they think it can be of benefit to them because if they ever go to war then they will be ready thanks to Counterstrike. I personally think they are living in an escapist dream world but to each his own.

    brad cook
     
  6. Nazirite

    Nazirite Member

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    I play lots of shooters for consoles systems but when it comes to practical self defense, I have no personal experience. I know from personal experience video games improve reaction time but they have no effect on how well you shoot at the range. Experts say first person shooters desensitize people to killing, having never shot someone I cannot attest to this claim.
     
  7. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    The following story is true:

    An Israeli paintball place once ran an event that featured a team of Special Forces veterans vs. a team of Counterstrike players.

    The CS people ran over the SF people like a T-80UD runs over a golf cart.
     
  8. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    Yes and no.

    Some shooters (including myself) found that some games planted the seeds for an interest in firearms and became disciples of tacticality.

    And the only person who I've ever had leave the firing line and sit behind the glass windows was a really timid dude who thought he knew too much to listen because he'd been playing CS. He was pretty damn good at it, too.

    My main gripe with FPS games is that the guns are mounted on wheeled tripods. Folks think you can point a 18 lb sniper rifle with a 14x scope offhand and whack a moving target from 300 yards. Maybe people can but I sure don't have the skills, strength or technique to pull it off. But kids end up thinking 'snipering' and 'camping' is 'cheap' and have special Deagle only stages for when people 'cheat' and 'sniper' people with their 'a-whop' (Accuracy Intl AWP).

    On the other hand, I've gotten better at games, at least ones where you're indoors. Outdoors, the bad guys can peg you in the head from 200 yds even though you're concealed behind a tree because while you can't see through the tree, the AI can. Go figure.

    Medal of Honor is much easier this time around.

    Open. Slice pie. Hose down BG (it's society's fault). Scan. Listen for jackboots. Hose down another another BG. Scan, listen. Tac reload. Etc. No more running around with one paw on 'quick save'.
     
  9. Josh

    Josh Member

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    A definate downside to playing FPSs on the Xbox, for instance is two fold. One, I am in the habit of keeping my finger off the trigger. This is a habit I do not want to break. The downside is, it slows me down in the game. Two, especially in HALO, my trigger discipline goes out the window.

    No smooth front sight, press there. No siree.

    I'm a big trigger jerker.
    That's a habit I'd like to break.

    I s'pose FPSs might be ok for building teamwork and familiarity with your partner/team if played multi player.

    I also find myself doing reckless things in the game, things that would definately make the life insurance man freak out if done in the Real World.
    Like gunfighting.

    Josh
     
  10. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    FPS games can help develop rudementary tactics and team-work, depending on the game. And it can also help with hand-eye co-ordination. Beyond that, I don't think they are generally worth much else. And I say that as a big FPS fan. In fact, I actually gained my interest in weapons from video games. I had always vaguely figured that the Second Amendment was a good idea and all, shouldn't violate it and such. But FPS games like Half-Life and Rainbow Six really peeked my interest.
     
  11. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Welcome to THR, Zan. What else do you do around Cincy?
     
  12. Mizzoutiger

    Mizzoutiger Member

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    There is most definitely a benefit to playing videogames.

    The Rainbow Six series will make you learn squad and small team tactics pretty quickly.

    Can't say so much for counterstrike. For a game that would really demand teamwork, rarely is there ever such. Perhaps it's because of the maturity level of those who play.
     
  13. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    I play video games and I am a fanatical competitive shooter. I really don't think there is much transfer over at all. Since I can win HALO on legendary solo, then I should be able to whoop Grand Masters, but that hasn't happened yet. :)

    I also used to be a very avid paintballer, so I know that MicroBalrog's example doesn't really mean squat in real life. Paintball doesn't really reflect on actual gun use very realistically either.

    I do have very good reflexes and reaction time, thats why I'm pretty good at games and it does help in shooting competition, but one isn't caused by the other.
     
  14. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I think this is the biggest connection ... those who develop an interest in FPS games (particularly realistic ones) tend to develp an interest in firearms and training ... plus I know tons of FPS players who also play paintball.

    I keep telling ya man ... the solution to that problem is Infiltration :evil:
     
  15. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    I thought this thread was going to be about how to use an Xbox as an impact weapon.

    Video games can teach some basic team tactics, but cannot impart motor skills, and are of very limited usefulness.
     
  16. BHPshooter

    BHPshooter Member

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    Holy crap, Correia, I need to get with you -- maybe you can show me what I'm doing wrong. In legendary, I'm stuck on the third level ("Keyes") at the gravity lift... I've been stuck there for about 2 weeks. :rolleyes:

    --------------

    Other than the supposed "coordination" that you're supposed to gain, I think there are possibly some BAD things that come from FPS games.

    For instance: You can't look at somebody without pointing your weapon at them. That always bugged me in HALO, since your teammates do it to you, too.

    You are also conditioned to keep your finger on the controller trigger, too.

    And the one game series I know of that had a "safety" for your weapon has since ditched that feature (Rainbow Six, and Rainbow Six 3, respectively).

    Have we ever thought about the psychological effects of playing video games? After reading shooting reports, I have heard several people say that it is important to get the "I never want to have to shoot anybody," mindset out of your head.

    I kind of take that to heart, since that's exactly how I feel. Is it possible that playing video games may help? (*here's a good one: I've been playing FPS games for most of my life, so if that could help, why do I still say that?*)

    I suppose it would be different if there was a game out there with some features that were MUCH more realistic. For instance, if your character has a 1911, when you load it, you have to push a button to work the slide stop, and then the hammer stays back, and you have to press a button to activate the safety. You would have to top off the mag to get full capacity. Maybe you could do both "tactical" reloads and emergency reloads, and use the sights to shoot -- but with the kind of shakiness that we all probably get.

    Hopefully someone will understand what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

    Wes
     
  17. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    I ought to hang out with you guys. I suck at videogames :barf:

    I just like runing that Garand dry on MOH just ot hear the **PING**.
     
  18. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    pc or console skunk?
     
  19. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    I suck at PC games but I like them. I have no interest in console...even if it's the same game like MOH or Splinter Cell I have no desire to play it. Go figure.
     
  20. itgoesboom

    itgoesboom member

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    I remember reading an article a few years back that actually discussed this.

    The article said that many kids that were involved in shootings, were actually becoming better and better, with no practice at the range. Maybe not better, but deadlier. The article stated that the police had noticed an increase in head shots since many of the games had come out, and they were trying to connect the two, since in many of the games, a head shot is the only way to go.

    They stated that the kids that were playing the FPS games were being trained to shoot for the head just by playing the games.

    No idea if it is true or not.

    I think there are a few advantages to playing, although I will admit I no longer play.

    Small group tactics can be learned to a certain degree if you are playing with a group that is willing to co-ordinate movement and such.

    You can learn to use cover in some of the games, and also to "slice the pie".

    I think that there are two advantages that I learned from playing the games.

    First, never count on the first shot to drop the opponent. Always shoot at least two, and be ready to keep shooting,

    and Second, learn when to do a tac reload.

    Other than that, I see them as games, and I certainly wouldn't look at them as training aids.

    I also wouldn't consider paintball to be very realistic either. I know that whenever I played paintball, I was much more likely to use tactics that were very risky, because, hey if I got shot, no biggie, I would be back in the next game.


    I.G.B.
     
  21. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    Maybe it does help maybe it doesn't.


    For example Counterstrike. I doubt many of us are gonna go rush the bad guys and get 4 kills, 3 with headshots and call it a day. Hell I know in real life self defense I'm gonna sit back (camp) and wait for the BG's to come find me. :eek:

    If video games helped me for self defense then that means I can snipe people with the Accuracy International AWP in .04 seconds without a scope! :D

    If we can only bunnyhop in real life...:neener:
     
  22. Penforhire

    Penforhire Member

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    I'm another video-game nut and I don't think there's much of a direct connection. I think the fundamental flaw is the level of stress is just not as high as being shot at. I think paintball gets up another notch over video games on the dealing-with-panic aspect.

    Rainbow Six 3 on XBox Live does have some nice tactics/communication benefits, along with counting your ammo, big guns beat little guns, stealth beats rushing, and full-auto you'll miss someone right in front of you. You're right about the trigger though. If I'm 40 milliseconds slower on the trigger than some of the kids I play with then I'm dead meat.

    Fumegator, where exactly are you stuck? I've run through Halo on Legendary mode a bunch of times (just a stress reliever now) and most 'scenes' have a tactic or weapons load that makes 'em easier. Some just remain insanely hard (who gave those Golden Elites energy swords I can't use?!?!).
     
  23. Blain

    Blain member

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    Believe me.....the only thing that prepares you, and teaches you how, to shoot is shooting.

    Computer mouse/keyboard FSP games don't even come close. Play lots of games and you'll be trained at being a good gamer. Clicking on a mouse and a keyboard are in no way related to the real thing, and this is coming from a guy who has played many of the games.

    Heck, you don't even know how to zero, or about bullet drop, etc. It's point of aim point of impact out to 700 yards! All guns are automatically zeroed at every distance, and stay zeroed. In most of the games, you don't even looks through the sights, but instead use a cross hair.

    This is not to even speak of breathing, trigger control, etc. Most games don't have field positions other than offhand.....it goes on and on till the break of dawn.
     
  24. tc300mag1

    tc300mag1 Member

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    Ive played them all but i dont reallythink it directly applys to defese even though your quick in the draw in the game you wont be in life hand eye will be better ..
     
  25. Deadman

    Deadman Member

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    You can't gain any physical fitness by sitting on your ass playing video games.

    No video game accurately shows how to strip, assemble and clean a firearm. Or clear jams either.

    Video games rarley incorporate realistic ballistics.

    Video games can't depict how a firearm handles while firing.

    Etc. etc.

    While I'd like to think that all the hours I've spent playing video games has somehow been benificial, I'm not going to bet my life on it.
     
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