Utah concealed weapons permits

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I'm a Las Vegas resident and frequently travel to both Utah and Arizona. I Have 3 CCW permits (NV, UT, AZ) mainly because I don't trust the reciprocity deals. Laws can change and agreements can end, but in Utah, Arizona and Nevada, I can carry with full confidence because of my permits.

People who bother to get permits (resident and non-resident) are going WAY out of their way to make certain they are in full compliance with the law. For every permit they get, they are submitting themselves to a criminal background check. They are putting their fingerprints and photographs into multiple law enforcement databases. They are taking instructional courses to educate themselves on concealed carry law. They are demonstrating proficiency in firearm use.

If you know someone who has a valid CCW permit, you can rest assured that someone ISN'T a convicted felon and hasn't been convicted of any form of violent assault.
 
Here's another reason that no one (that I noticed anyway) has mentioned. The Utah non-resident permit can be acquired totally by mail, once the applicant has found a Utah approved instructor. Most other states require the applicant to apply in that state.

I live in Oregon, and I can either spend all day going up to Washington, then finding a local cop shop, and going through the procedures; or I can find a local approved instructor, and take the Utah course evenings or weekends here. Washington honors the Utah permit (which is also cheaper than Washington's) and the Utah permit, is honored in more places.

But to answer the OP's question, the main reason I was considering the Utah non-resident permit was the ability to get it without having to leave my hometown.
 
Reciprocity Has Limits

Some states (i.e., Michigan and Florida, and maybe Colorado soon) do not honor the Utah permit if it has been issued to a non-resident of Utah. Nevertheless, for now, my Utah permit gives me the right to defend myself in about 27+/- states as of my last count. Since I live in one of the 2 states that have no CC laws, it allows me to exercise my constitutional rights when I travel out of my home state. Does anyone think that a person who wants to use a weapon to perpetrate a crime would go through the process? Not likely, they would just go out and try to obtain (relatively easily) what they want, be it a gun, drugs, sex or alcohol (which we already have experience in allowing, outlawing, and finding out it didn't work). Many more people die from driving while under the influence than from being exposed to the business end of a firearm. Maybe we should outlaw automobiles and trucks?
 
Mike - Can you post links to the state regs on that?

I know that some states will not recognize an out of state permit held by an in-state resident. (they figure a resident should have gotten one locally) I've not heard of a state caring what state a non-resident person had a permit from.
 
I live on the East Coast and got it because it is recognized in so many states, and because it is economical. It's a much better deal than Florida.
 
THR Members Quoted, THR Linked

Here is Lee's article from today's paper:

Armed and ready? About 1 in 40 Utahns packs a concealed weapon

Copyright 2007 Deseret Morning News

By Lee Davidson and Bob Bernick Jr.
Deseret Morning News

If you are ever in a room with 40 or so other Utahns — say at a theater, restaurant or back-to-school night — odds are that at least one person there has a concealed weapon permit and could be legally packing a loaded handgun.


Then again, the odds are double that in rural Garfield County, where one of every 19 residents has such a permit.


The popularity of Utah concealed gun permits has increased significantly, up 65 percent, among the state's residents since 2001. Now, nearly 60,000 Utahns hold one, which is roughly equivalent to the population of either Taylorsville or Tooele County.


But what is astounding is how popularity has quintupled since 2001 among nonresidents. About a third of all Utah permits are now held by people who do not live in the state.


They like to obtain Utah's document because the permits are valid in more states than those from just about anywhere else, they tend to be cheaper, Utah shields the anonymity of permit holders, and permits are relatively easy to obtain.


Those findings emerge from a Deseret Morning News analysis of data from the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification, which issues the permits and conducts criminal background checks on applicants.


The analysis found that statewide, 59,814 Utahns, or 2.3 percent of the population, now have concealed weapons permits — about one of every 43 people. That is up by 65 percent since 2001, when just 36,327 residents had permits.


Rural/urban variations


The newspaper's analysis found that permits are more widespread in some areas than others.


They are most popular in rural Garfield County, where one of every 19 residents has a permit and could be "strapped" — or carrying a gun — as the modern lingo goes.


Garfield County Commission Chairman Maloy Dodds said he was a bit surprised that his county has the highest percentage — but said he "would have guessed it would be more" than "only" 5.3 percent of the population.


Dodds personally doesn't have a concealed weapon permit. "But I know one of the other commissioners does. (Garfield County residents) are comfortable with guns. We have them in our trucks, in our homes. Most of us hunt."


Should any criminals come into the county seeking mischief, "they'd find a lot of folks with guns," Dodds said.


On the other extreme, Cache County has the fewest concealed gun permits per resident, about one for every 56 residents.


Rural counties tend to have far more permits per resident than urban areas. In fact, the urban Wasatch Front counties of Weber, Davis, Salt Lake and Utah rank respectively as numbers 21, 24, 26 and 27 among Utah's 29 counties for permits per resident.

Deseret Morning News graphic

Still, more than 70 percent of all permits issued to Utahns are for those heavily populated Wasatch Front counties. Salt Lake County had the most: 20,995. That's about the same as the population of the city of South Salt Lake.


Out-of-state factor


As popular as the Utah permits are among residents, they are becoming ever more favored among residents of other states. Analysis shows that 29 percent of the total current 84,849 Utah permits are held by non-Utahns.


Nonresidents hold 24,955 Utah permits, a fivefold increase since 2001, when they held 4,036.


New applications, from residents and nonresidents, also have spiraled upward from about 7,400 in 2002 to what Sgt. Jeff Nigbur, spokesman for the Bureau of Criminal Identification, said is expected to be 25,000 to 30,000 this year.


He said the bureau is struggling to keep up with them and the required background checks. Currently, he said, the bureau has a backlog of about 6,000 applications, and it is taking about three months to process applications.


He notes that by law, applications are supposed to be processed in 60 days, but the swamped bureau is unable to meet that right now.


The fear level


Why are Utah gun permits so popular among residents and nonresidents alike, and is that good or bad? Both people who love or hate guns have plenty of opinions.


With the 9/11 attacks, the Iraq war and the Columbine, Trolley Square and Virginia Tech shootings, "The fear level goes up so high that people want a gun so they can shoot the bad guy before he shoots them," says Britt Minshall, a Baltimore psychologist who was a police officer for 16 years near Philadelphia.


"But rank-and-file people without deep handgun training have no business having a gun on their person, and I include myself in that. They say it is for protection, but the bad guy usually will take their gun, shoot them, and then sell their gun for a lot of money on the black market," he said, noting he advocates more gun control.


Similarly, Steve Gunn, a board member for Utahns Against Gun Violence, says the rise in concealed-gun permits is bad, "especially if all these people are carrying their guns on a regular basis." He said domestic murders, suicides and all kinds of gun deaths rise as the number of guns available to citizens rises.


"In a general proposition, proliferation of handguns is unhealthy to our society," Gunn says.


Someone with opposite views, Kevin Michalowski, associate editor of Gun Digest The Magazine, says popularity is rising among Utahns because its residents are "rational people who are strongly independent. The residents and the government officials apparently understand that restrictions on the law-abiding only serve to help criminals."


Showing support for that view is that after the Trolley Square shootings in February, a pro-gun rights advocate in the 104-member Utah Legislature put on the Web close-up pictures of four concealed handguns worn by permitted members of the Legislature — without, of course, naming the "strapped" lawmakers.


Wes Dahl, who works at a gun store in Tooele, says, "Although we've always heard from a good number of people who are interested in concealed carry permits, we had a big jump after the Trolley Square shooting. It diminished very little before the (Virginia Tech) shooting, and interest is high again. Probably one of every two customers who come in ask me about the concealed carry permit."


The Utah bargain


Out-of-staters also list many reasons why they seek Utah permits.


Chief among them is that permits from Utah and Florida are recognized by more states than any other permits — in 30 or more states each, says Joe Waldron, executive director of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.


He says that for the gun-toting traveler, "Both are considered the 'never leave home without' card," so gun carriers can travel legally in many states without the need to obtain permits in each of them.


Waldron said Florida's permit costs $117. Utah's costs half that: $59.


Because of the popularity of the Utah permit, Utah has licensed instructors who live in 44 different states and two Canadian provinces to teach a specialized class required for a Utah permit.


The SafeArms Academy, which advertises online to teach Utah's course in many states, offers regular classes, for example, in St. Louis, Mo. Why? It says that while Missouri law allows its counties to issue concealed weapons permits, St. Louis County has never done so. But if a St. Louis resident obtains a Utah permit, Missouri law recognizes it as valid anywhere in that state.


SafeArms Academy also advertises other reasons for out-of-staters to get a Utah permit:


• It is often cheaper than permits in their home states, and often just as valid.


• While many states consider names of permit holders to be public, Utah will not release them.


• And Utah's pistol course requires only three hours, while the National Rifle Association course required by many states takes 10 hours.


Voices from the Web


The Deseret Morning News posted an inquiry on an online discussion board of gun enthusiasts, TheHighRoad.org, asking why participants think Utah's permit is popular. Most responses were anonymous, but they offered interesting opinions.


One said, "I am a Salt Lake City resident who just last month completed my CWP class and applied for a permit.... The Trolley Square shootings helped me decide to finally do it. The shootings also made it easier for my wife to understand why I'd want to get a permit."


One who said he is a Utah pistol class instructor said, "Trolley Square spurred a lot of folks who had been sitting on the fence about the issue. I'm sure that Virginia Tech will also have a similar effect, if not even greater." He added, "For anyone that travels much, the Utah permit is great. I can drive from here to Florida and not have to take my gun off."


Several wrote that they like how Utah's permit is recognized by 30 other states. One wrote, "I am a resident of Minnesota who will often frequent South Dakota and North Dakota. For the price and ease of legally being able to carry in these three states, the Utah permit is the best fit."


One from New Jersey said that the Utah permit he holds "is the only way those of us in 'liberal' Northeastern states have the opportunity to gain access to the right to defend ourselves and our families when we're away from home."


Another from Massachusetts said of gun enthusiasts, "We greatly appreciate Utah."



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