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Utah's top catholic leader and governor say na to no permit

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by wild cat mccane, Mar 22, 2013.

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  1. wild cat mccane

    wild cat mccane Member

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    In case anyone was watching, Gov Herbert in Utah vetoed the pending law to allow concealed carry without a permit.

    Utah's top Catholic leader also said it was a bad idea as it created an environment of deadly force as acceptable, antithetical to Christianity.
    http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2505/250588/25058844.pdf

    Pretty good public reaction to the Gov's decision here in Utah.

    This is the most red state in the US. See? There is room for compromise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  2. PabloJ

    PabloJ Member

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    That goes well along with 'Thou shall not kill'.
     
  3. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    How much money would they LOSEE from out of state permit holders????

    Jim
     
  4. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    I don't understand why they wrote the proposed law so that if passed you would have to carry "unloaded". :eek::eek:
     
  5. wild cat mccane

    wild cat mccane Member

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    I believe Utah is the highest exporter of permits?

    I have also read our state loses money because the permit administration costs more than the fee.
     
  6. baz

    baz Member

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    Sounds to me like media just trolling for some negative news. I cannot imagine that Catholics are all that common in Utah, especially as compared, say, to another denomination. ;)
     
  7. Nanook

    Nanook Member

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    Yeah, that was my first thought as well. Catholics in Utah? How many can there be?
     
  8. wild cat mccane

    wild cat mccane Member

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    Media trolling? I don't figure. It is the top story on ksl.com, our larger news source...
     
  9. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    You would be surprised.............Utah is starting to look a lot like southern California, TJ north.
     
  10. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    The Catholics are not pro-gun and the Mormons won't let you carry in their church buildings. It is the reason I have faith in God, not religions or government.

    Currently it is legal to open carry "unloaded" in Utah without a permit. What this means is that you can have ammo in the gun but it requires two actions to fire-
    Semi-Auto: Rack the slide and pull the trigger.
    Revolver: Pull the trigger twice.

    This law would make it legal to carry concealed under the same rules.

    Kind of silly really, especially when you still have to deal with school zones. Due to the federal laws, you cannot carry a gun into a school zone. In Utah if you have a permit then it is allowed.
     
  11. PlaneJain

    PlaneJain Member

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    I thought this bill was getting enough votes in the senate that somehow would over-ride any veto their governor signed. I'm unfamiliar with Utah law, but was that correct in they (the Utah senate) can do that? Anybody know more about this???
     
  12. morcey2

    morcey2 Member

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    Remember that "Unloaded" in Utah is a specific legal term that does _not_ mean "no ammo in the gun". It means that the gun must be two discrete actions away from firing and one of those can't be the safety. There also can't be a round in the firing position regardless of whether it would be fired on the subsequent trigger pull. That affects DA revolvers primarily.

    I can't believe he vetoed it because there is about a 95% chance of it being overriden in a special session. He should have just let it become law without signing it if he didn't agree with it.

    He said something like "I understand the value of the permit [CFP] when it comes to the 2nd Amendment." :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

    Um. No. You don't.

    Matt
     
  13. morcey2

    morcey2 Member

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    Even though it got enough votes to override a veto, he can still veto it and force a re-vote on it as per the Utah Constitution.
     
  14. InkEd

    InkEd Member

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    I am sorry but Utah is going to be more influenced by the Mormon voters than Catholic voters. It's a numbers game simply.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  15. Bio-Chem

    Bio-Chem Member

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    Salt Lake is currently less than 50% LDS. FYI. Salt lake also has a very large Catholic and Greek Orthodox population.

    Outside of Salt Lake the rest of Utah is of course still very highly LDS populated, but there is surprising diversity in SLC.
     
  16. Nanook

    Nanook Member

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    I didn't realize that, when you think of Utah, you think LDS automatically. Sorry to hear your freedom is being diluted like the rest of us. I always thought of Utah as one of the last bastions of freedom, it looks like no place is free from leftist contamination.

    Not for the first time, I'm glad I'm 60 rather than 30.
     
  17. Bio-Chem

    Bio-Chem Member

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    well he will be having a call from me monday telling him my disappointment in his veto.
     
  18. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    You are correct.

    I would still have a permit if it went through because of the school zone issue.
     
  19. EHL

    EHL Member

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    Really??? I've been carrying for years while church services are going on and I've never been told anything nor have I ever seen anything written that states that this is the official policy. Where did you get this information from?
     
  20. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    In Utah, churches can post here on the BCI site if they prohibit carry on the premises
     
  21. wild cat mccane

    wild cat mccane Member

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    yes. Carrying in an LDS church in utah is illegal.

    Also, yes "the rest of the state is LDS"...but the rest of the state is less than half of the population of Salt Lake County.
     
  22. Matno

    Matno Member

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    Many of them Hispanic (not that it matters, well, since overall Hispanics vote at least 70% liberal, maybe it does). Not sure how Catholics tend to vote re: gun stuff. I know there are plenty of other "moral" issues on which most Catholics vote contrary to the church leaders' teaching...
     
  23. Matno

    Matno Member

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    The rest of the state is about equal in numbers to Salt Lake.

    Carrying in an LDS church is illegal because it's private property and the church says not to (unless you're LE).
     
  24. cluck

    cluck Member

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    It has been publicly released by the LDS church that ALL of their meeting houses are gun free zones. Of course, this hasn't stopped shootings on temple grounds or ward house parking lots. (duh)

    After reading the text of the legislation, HB 76S01 doesn't replace the existing CFP program. People could still get a Utah CFP and carry red even in school zones with the exception of private property that is posted "No Firearms". Trolley Square Mall is a perfect example of one of these locations.
     
  25. Matno

    Matno Member

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    All I know is one thing I really like about my kids' school in Utah is that they have three adults on campus at all times who carry concealed. They haven't armed teachers yet, because they don't feel it's necessary at the moment, but they at least discussed it and haven't ruled it out as a future possibility.
     
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