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VA CCW list published by Roanoke Times 3/11

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Bacchus, Mar 11, 2007.

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  1. cngerms

    cngerms member

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    See Stanzie, on this forum, we have your back in more ways than one. HA!

    Just don't get caught driving through MD or DC on the way to PA. Those commies will put you UNDER the jail for carrying concealed.
     
  2. packingdressagerider

    packingdressagerider Member

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    Re: Miffed Advertizers....Rke Times Snafu

    "Stanzie,

    PA & VA now have reciprocity...."

    Thanks, Cngerms. Didn't know that. Is there a link for that? I can't open that file for some goofy reason.
    Stanzie
     
  3. cngerms

    cngerms member

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  4. cngerms

    cngerms member

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    Roanoke Times advertisers email list TWO and a form letter

    Hi Folks,

    Here is email list number two. It is dedicated to Long and Foster Realtors ONLY. They have a huge number of agents in the Roanoke area and across the commonwealth. This list is even larger than the generic advertiser list I compiled earlier. You will, also, find a very DIRECT and personalized form letter posted here as well. Some of the email addresses listed are Long & Foster bigwigs; the CEO, many VPs, and other VIPs at the corporation. This should definitely get their attention. We need a mass email campaign with this. Here ya go:

    Dear Long and Foster Realtors,

    In case you are unaware, on Sunday, March 11, 2007, The Roanoke Times online newspaper, www.roanoke.com, published an anti-Second Amendment op-ed piece under the guise of extolling the virtues of Sunshine Week, a celebration of open government and public records. The article was authored by Christian J. Trejbal and titled, "Shedding Light on Concealed Handguns." The article may be found here: http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160

    Mr. Trejbal and the editorial staff at the Roanoke Times took the occasion of this article to reveal the full names and HOME addresses of 135,789 Virginians who legally possess Concealed Handgun Permits (CHPs) while sanctimoniously equating these CHP licensees to sex offenders in regard to the level of danger they pose to the public. CHPs are acquired by retired police officers, judges, prosecutors, civilians in hiding from abusive ex-spouses/ex-lovers, and those Virginians wishing to carry a firearm for no other reason than general self-protection; a list which surely includes a number of REALTORS. The Roanoke Times personally hosted, on its website, a searchable database of ALL Virginia CHP licensees without regard to the licensees' safety or the safety of their families. Many Second Amendment proponents argue this list established a "weapons shopping list" for burglars and thieves all across the commonwealth as well.

    I am writing you today because Long and Foster Realtors advertises with the Roanoke Times, roanoke.com, and one or more of its subsidiaries. The Roanoke Times’ parent company, Landmark Communications of Norfolk, VA, owns the Hampton Roads newspaper, The Virginian-Pilot, as well. I feel it is only fair to inform you that I and many of my Second Amendment proponent friends have begun personal boycotts of all Landmark Communications, Roanoke Times, and The Virginian-Pilot advertisers until a resolution to their grievous error has been reached. You may, also, be interested in knowing that an “advertiser boycott” list is circulating swiftly and on a large scale throughout the Second Amendment proponent community all across the Commonwealth of Virginia AND the rest of the country.

    I have asked the Roanoke Times for the following three actions:

    1. Issue a public apology to all Virginia CHP licensees both in print and broadcast media.
    2. Publicly promise to never post the CHP database, again. To do so would only endanger the lives of many Virginians a second time.
    3. Terminate the following three individuals from their positions on the Roanoke Times editorial staff immediately: Christian J. Trejbal, Debbie Meade, and Dan Radmacher. These individuals have squandered the public's trust and proved unworthy of their positions of great social responsibility.

    Until the Roanoke Times and Landmark Communications responds accordingly, I will NOT do business with ANY of its advertisers, including Long and Foster Realtors. I will continue to ask my friends and family NOT to do business with Long and Foster as well. Long and Foster must bring pressure to bear upon Landmark Communications and the Roanoke Times concerning their egregious, unrepentant behavior. I hope to see this issue come to a swift and reasonable conclusion. Thank you!

    Sincerely,


    The list:

    [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], Karen.bertrand[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], c[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]foster.com, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]gandfoster.com, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2007
  5. packingdressagerider

    packingdressagerider Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Virginia
    Re: Reciprocity...Rke Advertisers

    Thank you, Cngerms for the links about Pa/Va reciprocity, and for the second RKE advertizers list. Is there a 'safe' way to travel through MD with a firearm? I never go to DC anymore.

    Stanzie
     
  6. Kael

    Kael Member

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    Stanzie,

    You should be protected under the Federal transport laws. locked and unloaded in the trunk. Something else to consider, the MD AG considers a loaded magazine a weapon, so you may wish to unload it.

    I live in MD but have a Florida non-res, so its of concern to me as well when I travel to states where that permit is honored.
     
  7. cngerms

    cngerms member

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    You're welcome, Stanzie.

    When I travel through MD, my firearm along with its empty magazines is locked in a case in the trunk and my ammo is locked in the glovebox. MD is big on having the ammo stored/locked away in a separate vehicle compartment from the firearm if at all possible. I even place a "rope" lock on my gun inside the locked case or remove the slide entirely. My gun is better secured driving through MD than when I fly commercially.

    The lengths to which I go may be overkill, but I take NO chances in MD. They are rabidly anti-gun. Remember, the Super. of the Maryland State Police even denied permits to the security force at the National Security Administration (NSA). They are stupid crazy, and I have no desire to take up temporary residence at the Jessup bighouse. I grew up in MD, was a paramedic there, and my brother is retired police from there, too. I've seen them in action!
     
  8. Hobie

    Hobie Member

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    When we started reacting to this I don't think anyone forsaw what might be happening now! There has been nearly as much talk about this as about Zumbo! :D
     
  9. ThatIsAFact

    ThatIsAFact Member

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    Messages:
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    Please cite authority for "loaded magazine"

    Above, Kael wrote, "Something else to consider, the MD AG considers a loaded magazine a weapon, so you may wish to unload it."

    I would like see some documentation of that statement. I have been unable to find any documentation that the Maryland AG or any Maryland court has taken this position. If it exists, I would like to see it.

    In late 2005 I corresponded with Mark H. Bowen, the Assistant Attorney General who has handled firearms issues for many years in the Maryland Attorney General's office, on whether a loaded magazine, detached from a handgun, was regarded by anyone as a loaded gun. He responded, "I am not personally aware of any Maryland cases that address this question. I would suggest you consult your own attorney."

    Also, I am very skeptical that any prosecution based on this theory could succeed. I would ask the prosecutor who asserts that a loaded magazine is the same as a loaded gun -- what about if the empty handgun is locked in one box and the loaded magazine is locked in another box? What about if the handgun is in Virginia and ONLY the loaded magazine is in the vehicle -- is it still a loaded hangun then?

    I think there is nothing in Maryland law to support this theory. But I would be happy to see any documentation to the contrary.
     
  10. ThatIsAFact

    ThatIsAFact Member

    Joined:
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    the distinctions between Maryland and federal transportation laws

    cngerms wrote above: "When I travel through MD, my firearm along with its empty magazines is locked in a case in the trunk and my ammo is locked in the glovebox. MD is big on having the ammo stored/locked away in a separate vehicle compartment from the firearm if at all possible. I even place a "rope" lock on my gun inside the locked case or remove the slide entirely. . . The lengths to which I go may be overkill. . ."

    For transporting a handgun THROUGH Maryland, one should follow the federal law (18 USC 926A), which does require that the firearm be unloaded and that "neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

    Contrary to popular belief, the Maryland law for transporting a handgun within the state is actually considerably less demanding than the federal law as far as the packaging goes-- the Maryland law simply requires that "each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster." There is actually nothing in the Maryland law requiring that the unloaded enclosed gun must also be locked up, or inaccessible to the driver, or that magazines be unloaded. The big difference, however, is that Maryland law prohibits anyone (except the holder of a carry permit) from transporting a handgun in the first place, even thus enclosed, except to or from a small list of "approved" locations.

    In other words, unless you are a Maryland permit holder, you better not have a handgun in your car in Maryland unless (1) you are traveling from one state to another with the gun packaged as provided by 18 U.S.C. 926A), OR (2) you are traveling to or from an "approved" location listed in the Maryland law with the gun unloaded and enclosed as required by Maryland law.

    I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. However, the distinctions between the federal and state law were well summarized by Maryland Assistant Attorney General Mark H. Bowen in the e-mail that I have inserted below, which he sent to another correspondent a few years ago.

    ___

    Dear Mr. _______:

    Maryland law generally prohibits the wearing, carrying or transporting of handgun, loaded or unloaded, concealed or openly: 1) on or about one's person; and, 2) in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State. Individuals who have been issued a permit to carry a handgun by the Maryland Department of State Police (handgun carry permits issued by other states are not effective) are exempted from this law.

    The following activities are also exempted: 1) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; 2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; 3) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; 4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases; 5) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee: in the course of employment; within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and (iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment.

    The federal law you cite (18 USC 926A) applies to the interstate transportation of a firearm (handgun or long arm) and supersedes Maryland law. It would have no bearing on the transportation of a firearm where the origin and destination are both within Maryland. It would however allow for the transportation of a firearm through the State of Maryland regardless of the Maryland law cited above.

    For purposes of the exceptions to Maryland law, a handgun may be transported within the passenger compartment of the vehicle provided it is unloaded and in an enclosed case or holster. For purposes of the federal law exception, the firearm must be unloaded and not readily accessible from the passenger compartment.

    Mark H. Bowen Assistant Attorney General
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  11. packingdressagerider

    packingdressagerider Member

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    Re:Crazyness of MD

    It might be simpler to avoid driving through MD altogether.

    Stanzie
     
  12. packingdressagerider

    packingdressagerider Member

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  13. Kael

    Kael Member

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    Thatisafact:
    You are correct, it does not exist in the state laws, and upon my inquiries to the State police on clarification, they had no idea what I was speaking of.

    However,
    Joseph Curran (the AG at the time) sent a letter to law enforcement and MD gun stores stating the AGs office would consider a loaded magazine a loaded weapon, and prosecute accordingly. I'm afraid I can't provide any documentation past that, but I have seen the letter. (my local gun store received and kept a copy.)

    I don't know how effectively it would stand up in a court of law, but I'm personally not willing to be the test case.
     
  14. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I wonder if Ms. Dalglish feels that all records should be open for the public's inspection including say the DMV database.

    Ms. Lucy Dalglish
    Executive Director
    Reporters Committee for
    Freedom of the Press
    1815 N. Fort Myer Drive
    Suite 900
    Arlington, Virginia 22209

    [email protected]
     
  15. cngerms

    cngerms member

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  16. cngerms

    cngerms member

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  17. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    Ok, Here are the FOIA Results

    Ok folks,

    As promised, I have had some measure of success here in regards to the VA State Police. I have made some comments next to the requests below in Blue. Here are my FOIA Results from the VA State Police:

    I have to state that Donna Tate was very professional, and responded to my FOIA request the next business day. In VA, State agencies are required by law to address the request, or ask for an additional 7 days to complete the request. She did it in 3.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  18. SWMAN

    SWMAN Member

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    In an email to members, VCDL 'fessed up to using the list.

    "GUN ORGANIZATIONS HAVE ACTED RESPONSIBLY

    VCDL has been getting copies of the CHP list for ten years now. So
    have other gun organizations. For VCDL and the VCDL-PAC that list
    has been important in our fight for the rights of all gun owners.

    We have been good stewards of that information. It has never been
    released outside of VCDL's leadership and it has always been used
    judiciously by the group.

    WHAT GOOD IS THE LIST?

    VCDL has 3,300 members. There are 140,000 CHP holders. That means
    that VCDL has about 3% of the CHP holders as members. The good news
    there is that most of those 3% are strong activists, the bad news is
    that 3% is a small number nonetheless.

    VCDL and the VCDL-PAC have never used the list primarily for
    recruitment. Sometimes we include in a membership brochure to
    introduce the group, answer questions about us, and give the permit
    holder the ability to join if they so choose.

    The list is used whenever we needed a lot of gun owners in a specific
    area to take some action:

    * VCDL has used the list to alert permit holders on critical issues
    requiring them to contact their legislators and urge the legislators
    to take certain actions. The list allows lots of mail from
    **constituents** in a given district, magnifying our strength since
    the reality is that 3,300 members are very diluted in any given
    legislative district. It's easy to see that 140,000 gun owners are a
    whole lot less diluted. To give you an idea, there are three times
    as many permit holders in Chesterfield County alone as there are VCDL
    members in the entire organization.

    * VCDL has used the list to notify local permit holders of situations
    where we need them to turn out. We mailed 400 Manassas permit
    holders and asked them to show up at the recent Manassas City Council
    meeting. No doubt that many gun owners at that meeting were their
    because of that mailing. We did a mailing to Norfolk permit holders
    when we were trying to get Norfolk to let us carry in their parks
    (before we had full preemption laws in place). Staunton, Newport
    News, Smithfield - the examples go on and on.

    * The VCDL-PAC has used that list to turn out CHP holders in
    important districts to vote in a primary and/or an election. Who has
    benefited from that? Jeff Frederick, Ken Cuccinelli, and Jackson
    Miller are three examples. This year is going to be critical to
    cleaning up the Senate and getting new pro-gun Delegates in some
    specific House seats - the CHP list will help the VCDL-PAC reach a
    lot of gun owners in the targeted districts. Electing pro-gun
    legislators is critical to our continued success in the General
    Assembly. We don't want to go back to the bad old days when the vast
    majority of gun bills introduced in the General Assembly were
    anti-gun and pro-gun bills never saw the light of day."

    "WHAT NOW?

    It is extremely unlikely that any action on the CHP list will occur
    before next year, when the General Assembly meets again. However, I
    have been in touch with various pro-gun Delegates, Senators, and with
    Lt. Governor Bill Bolling's office on this matter, so far. I plan on
    attending the FOIA Council meeting discussed below to represent VCDL
    on Monday.

    In the meantime, VCDL is extremely concerned about the situation and
    the Board is deciding on the best way to proceed. Since we have
    time, we want to take careful, measured steps and not rush into a
    solution that might not be effective or unnecessarily hurt gun owners
    or diminish VCDL's effectiveness.

    Regardless of the CHP list's future we have an immediate need to stop
    the Freelance-Star and the Journal-Press from printing any more CHP
    holder information and we will be concentrating on that in the short
    run.

    Taking Delegate Morgan Griffith's lead, next year might be the time
    to push even harder for Alaska Carry, where a permit is not needed to
    carry concealed, but is available for reciprocity reasons should
    someone want one. With Alaska Carry you can carry concealed and not
    be on anybody's list!

    Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, Roanoke Times!

    On a final note, this whole situation should serve as a reminder to
    all of us to reevaluate our personal security. Simply having a gun
    doesn't guarantee security, it just gives you additional options. If
    you are concerned about your privacy, go online and do a search for
    your name and carefully examine the information that appears. You
    might be unpleasantly surprised at what's already available."
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  19. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    I may have missed this if someone posted it already, but here is his personel email address and phone contact info.

    [email protected]

    Phone Number: 540-381-1645
    Phone Number: 541-617-7837

    there is another phone number which has been coming up related to him in searches but I've been unable to confirm it. (and I can't just call it, I'm in a school computer lab)

    (540) 400-0343
     
  20. Shooting Ace

    Shooting Ace Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
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    Did I read something wrong or did Trejbal only pay $25 for the list and not $100 as he stated. I guess you can add liar to the list.
     
  21. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    Shooting Ace,

    Trejbal paid 25 dollars for an older list, the one on the website was dated January something or other. He stated that he wanted to save the paper some money and paid the copying fee for a list that had been created for someone else. It would have been 100 bucks for the most recent list. His admission is why I FOIA'd the VA State Police to see who else had requested it. Over three years, very few have.
     
  22. Beatnik

    Beatnik Member

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    Location:
    Woodbridge, VA
    That's why I joined last Saturday - if you're in VA and you haven't joined, then join!

    They do an awful lot with those small numbers - imagine what they would be doing if they had all of the CHP holders, let alone the non CHP pro-2nd crowd.
     
  23. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an
    interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.


    So this ... person ... puts gun permit holders in the category of sex offenders,
    people the public need to be warned about. Like I needed a reminder of why I
    do not trust anti-gunners with my civil rights.

    Mr. Trejbal and the editorial staff at the Roanoke Times took the occasion
    of this article to reveal the full names and HOME addresses of 135,789 Virginians
    who legally possess Concealed Handgun Permits (CHPs) . . . CHPs are acquired by
    retired police officers, judges, prosecutors, civilians in hiding from abusive
    ex-spouses/ex-lovers, . . .


    In Ohio, at least three criminals confessed to planning crimes based on
    handgun license info published in the newspapers. If an abusive ex-spouse/
    ex-lover uses the published name and home address (revealed by the CHP
    holder to the state but not neceassarily to the ex-spouse or ex-lover),
    will Mr. Trejbal and the editorial staff at the Roanoke Times accept
    responsibility for the consequences??????
     
  24. alan

    alan Member

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    Lets speculate. Post publication of their name and address, they too were printed no??, the individual begins to have "employment" or "other" problems. Such problems didn't previously exist.

    Is the paper and or it's reporter in any way lible? There is freedom of speech and supposedly there is also a free press, however what about shouting fire in that crowed theatre?
     
  25. FMJMIKE

    FMJMIKE Member

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Copper Hill, Virginia
    Christian Trejbal

    I am a little late to this dance but am sending e-mails now. Since Christian Trejbal likes to print information about other people. I was wondering if a search of his past could be done. Like a criminal background check etc.... I wonder if he has any skeletons in his closet he would like exposed ???
     
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