VA CCW list published by Roanoke Times 3/11

[vis-à-vis]

I dropped him a line:

First off, publishing the list makes you a dick. Secondly, while it is your right to do so, you have invariably invaded peoples homes and privacy. Not only have you provided a list to any thug demonstrating where they may obtain a firearm, but you have also provided a list of peoples homes who do not have a Concealed Carry permit by implication. Studies show criminals are more afraid of gun owners than non and so the deterrent factor is reduced, by you. I hope you feel satisfied and so far the poll indicates a 79% rejection of your list.

Repy 1:

Hi [Edit].

Thanks for taking the time to read my column and send a response. As you know, having or not having a concealed handgun permit says nothing about ownership of a firearm in the home. Many people own guns but choose not to acquire the permit to carry them.

Have a nice day.

Yes sir, that is true. I did not say the deterrent factor is abolished, just reduced. I apologize for calling you a dick by the way. It was rude and not the high road and was written in anger. But that does not mean I don't find this outrageous.

You're article is being discussed here: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3191482#post3191482

Reply 2:

No need to apologize, I understand that you feel strongly about this issue. It is, nevertheless, appreciated. Thanks also for the link.

--
Christian Trejbal
Editorial Writer
The Roanoke Times

I gave him a link here because I'd want to know what people are saying about my article and me. And second perhaps he can get perspective here and become a fellow Second Amendment enthusiast and an avid shooter.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Vis a Vis,
You were nicer than I was.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

HAhahaha nice job on the blog guys. This idiot is getting sounded trashed and I love every second of it.

They tried this in Ohio (my state) too up in Cleveland. Not sure if the law got changed about that yet.

 

[obxned]

Well, at least now you know which of your neighbors not to trust.

Are they without a permit because of a criminal background, mental illness, domestic assault, simple stupidity, or are they just the kind of people who are incapable of taking care of themselves?

Hopefully, none of your neighbors are treasonous anti-American scum who have no respect for the Constitution of the United States of America, you know, the one so many Americans have fought and died to defend for near 250 years.

 

[bensdad]

I e-mailed his editor, but I'd like to kick it up a notch. Anybody notice who the parent company is? I couldn't run it down on the website, but I'm not very good at that sort of thing.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Find the editors
Find the owners
FIND THE ADVERTISERS!

Hit 'em in the pocket!

But for God's sake stay AWAY from the man's home. We're better than him and we MUST remain on the high road.

 

[Winter Borne]

Even as we speak the VCDL is in contact with our attorneys to takethis up several notches. I know when I put my last name in it was the first to come up, along with my home address.

The other side of this coin is, this BOZO has given out a list of armed prople in VA. vs un-armed. "All a BG has to do is run his intended victim against that database and he will know if they maay be armed. Without the database, the criminal would have no way of knowing. What a way to weaken us all.

I will continue to post as news becomes available.

 

[Soybomb]

Mr. Trejbal, in your article you make repeated reference to government
oversight, yet your article as well as the publication of the list by your
newspaper seems to be more about harassment and ostracizing permit
holders. Perhaps in the future you'll be inclined to actually put some
real work into your journalism and actually tell us more about how good a
job the government is doing with the permit process, spelling errors
aside.

As a side note, I find it very insulting that he has compared legal permit holders to sex offenders.

 

[thexrayboy]

He seems to think government oversight of 2A rights is permissable and good. I suggest Virginians seek the same level of government oversight of journalists. You want to write a column for the paper, get a permit from the local city hall. No permit, no column. If its good enough for one Amendment it's good enough for another. This carpetbagging socialist needs to be overseen quite closely in the future to make sure he doesn't abuse his First Amendment rights again as he did with the article in question.

 

[vis-à-vis]

^^ Thats actually a good point, lol.

 

[bouis]

I'm surprised the guy is bothering to respond to e-mails. Here's mine and his reply:

Mr. Trejbal,

I hope you're happy with yourself. By publishing that list
you've endangered the safety, security, and indeed the lives
of tens or hundreds of thousands of Virginians-- not just
those individuals with concealed carry permits, but their
wives and their children as well, and indeed everyone who
may have been spared assault for fear that he or she "might"
be prepared to defend themselves. Unfortunately, no one will
publish a list of the honest people who've suffered for your
vindictive stunt.

If anything, I hope your abuses will force your government
to better protect the privacy of its citizens. It certainly
has motivated me to petition my own representatives to
insure that this never happens here.

Sincerely,

/s/ bouis

Mr. [bouis],

Thank you for reading my column and taking the time to respond. I cannot wish you luck getting your state's laws changed on this matter, but I do commend you for recognizing that the real anger and action should be directed at the lawmakers who made these records public.

Have a nice day.

--
Christian Trejbal
Editorial Writer
The Roanoke Times

 

[RNB65]

You guys are all directing your anger in the wrong direction. I have no problem with a newspaper publishing public records under FOI. Rather than complaining to the newspaper, you should be contacting your state rep's and demanding that the General Assembly exempt the CHP records from the FOI Act.

 

[pv74]

ARFCOM thread...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=555659&page=1

 

[GTSteve03]

Someone's probably already said this but...

It seems to me that we wouldn't be having this problem if we weren't required to request permission from the government to exercise our basic 2nd Amendment rights. That and the fact that we let the government keep a database of all our information that anyone can request, just because we want to protect ourselves.

 

[Soybomb]

You guys are all directing your anger in the wrong direction. I have no problem with a newspaper publishing public records under FOI. Rather than complaining to the newspaper, you should be contacting your state rep's and demanding that the General Assembly exempt the CHP records from the FOI Act.

Believe it or not I actually disagree to a certain extent. While I'm against requiring permits in general, it can be a way to audit the government's job, be it just handing out permits to high profile people in may issue states, or not properly screening felons in shall issue states that might lead to bad headlines for us later down the road. I do wish the newspaper could be responsible with this information and actually use it as a government check. Sadly as they've demonstrated time and time again, they cannot and will instead use it as a harassment tool.

 

[gunsmith]

what about "sunshine"

But for God's sake stay AWAY from the man's home. We're better than him and we MUST remain on the high road.

Well then, secure his phone number.
I want to talk to him.
Being that he is to cowardly to talk on the phone why not knock on his door?
It is perfectly legal to do so, no one here has said to do him any injury ...so why not knock on his door?

I want the home address of all the editors and advertisers, heck I want the home address of every single employee of that yellow journalistic rag.

They are comfortable putting people in danger, lets see how comfort they get when their names are posted on the internet?...what are they worried about?

 

[BobCav]

This applies to Virginia CHP holders.

This states that any witness or victim of a crime may requests non-disclosure of their personal info (address). It further states that non-disclosure is automatic for any sexual assault, sexual abuse or family abuse crimes.

If any of you CHP holders that have found your name on the list, and are past victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse or family abuse crimes, (as many are), then the Virginia State Police have violated Virginia State Law by releasing your addresses without your written consent. That means that Mr. Trajbal is now an accomplice to this crime. I would recommend not posting any further comments and immediately contacting an attorney.



Here's the VA State Code:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-11.2

§ 19.2-11.2. Crime victim's right to nondisclosure of certain information; exceptions; testimonial privilege.

Upon request of any witness in a criminal prosecution under § 18.2-46.2 or 18.2-46.3, or any crime victim, neither a law-enforcement agency, the attorney for the Commonwealth, the counsel for a defendant, a court nor the Department of Corrections, nor any employee of any of them, may disclose, except among themselves, the residential address, telephone number, or place of employment of the witness or victim or a member of the witness' or victim's family, except to the extent that disclosure is (i) of the site of the crime, (ii) required by law or Rules of the Supreme Court, (iii) necessary for law-enforcement purposes or preparation for court proceedings, or (iv) permitted by the court for good cause.

Except with the written consent of the victim, a law-enforcement agency may not disclose to the public information which directly or indirectly identifies the victim of a crime involving any sexual assault, sexual abuse or family abuse, except to the extent that disclosure is (i) of the site of the crime, (ii) required by law, (iii) necessary for law-enforcement purposes, or (iv) permitted by the court for good cause.

Nothing herein shall limit the right to examine witnesses in a court of law or otherwise affect the conduct of any criminal proceeding.

 

[gunsmith]

good one

thanks

 

[cngerms]

Here's a link to the Roanoke Times business directory:

http://www.roanoke.com/BizListings/

I'll begin calling restaurants, realtors, banks, and car dealers in the morning just to get things rolling. These 4 categories should be their biggest advertisers. I'll work on the smaller advertising categories later. The Hotel Roanoke Conference Center is a Doubletree/Hilton property in downtown Roanoke and it's a HUGE advertiser/pot-o-gold for the paper:

http://www.hotelroanoke.com/


ALSO, I would suggest that ALL Virginia residents on the list access their name on the database and print it out as a permanent record for the purpose of future litigation. I'm guessing the CHP database will be pulled very soon under the enormous amount of pressure they'll come to bear. I want a record of the fact that my name was made available on their website.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Christian J. Trejbal home address

It's publicly available, of course, so he would want you to have it:

Christian J. Trejbal
2502 Fairway DR SW
Roanoke, VA 24015

[email protected]

By the way, does anyone else realize that the people who are responding to him and hitting his blog are actually helping him?

Advertising revenue on the Internet is based on "hits": the number of times a page is accessed. My guess is that by now you've made Trejbal a star, and that the newspaper will begin publishing updates to the CWP lists as frequently as possible.

That's what happened a couple of years ago when the Cleveland Plain Dealer began doing it. Now they have a full page devoted to fighting against guns and concealed weapons permits, and update the CWP list monthly. Take a look.

It's a great way for a newspaper to build online circulation: keep irritating the gun owners because they always respond the same way.

 

[Autolycus]

Perhaps everyone should just drop him a handwritten letter instead of an email? I mean as Robert Hairless said he would want us to know since it is public information.

 

[Caimlas]

It seems to me that having that sort of list be produced is exactly why there shouldn't be "permits" to exercise your 2nd amendment rights.

Precisely!

They pulled the same sh*t (excuse me) here in SD a couple months and my name (as well as many others') got put out by the Argus Leader. Thankfully, my wife didn't have her permit quite yet when the list got released, and now it isn't allowed for the list to be released, so she's safe. But there are a lot of others out there who are on public record (in print form) for having permits. Not only does this open them up to crime, but if the government ever wants to take our guns and we somehow manage to destroy the official record, they could reconstruct it in some form from a number of other sources with ease.

The comparision to having criminals listed is apt. That's not societally acceptable, but somehow this is? Hey, how about we list everyone who's registered a dangerous sports car? Because, you know, they go fast and stuff and are dangerous, and couldn't possibly result in someone being targetted for crime.

 

[mmike87]

You guys are all directing your anger in the wrong direction. I have no problem with a newspaper publishing public records under FOI. Rather than complaining to the newspaper, you should be contacting your state rep's and demanding that the General Assembly exempt the CHP records from the FOI Act.

i don't think anyone is suggesting that this person broke any laws. Only that he did something that is rotten - all to further his own personal liberal anti-gun agenda.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. He is still morally responsible for his actions regardless of their legality.

I can easily put together a list of all my co-workers, go to the County web site, and put together a list of what each of them paid for their homes. I can print this list out and distribute it amonst select co-workers. I have no broken any laws, but it would still be a pretty lousy thing to do, and would see by many as an intrusion, especially in your place of employment where the size of your mortgage can be seen as an indication of the size of your salary.

Additionally, the intent of having information "public" was never to allow an abuse like this - and that is what this is. The ONLY reason the information is on the Roanoke Time web site is to hurt and enrage gun owners, and that was certainly never the intent "open government" laws.

 

[gengarnett]

I do not agree

By the way, does anyone else realize that the people who are responding to him and hitting his blog are actually helping him?

Advertising revenue on the Internet is based on "hits": the number of times a page is accessed. My guess is that by now you've made Trejbal a star, and that the newspaper will begin publishing updates to the CWP lists as frequently as possible.

That's what happened a couple of years ago when the Cleveland Plain Dealer began doing it. Now they have a full page devoted to fighting against guns and concealed weapons permits, and update the CWP list monthly. Take a look.

It's a great way for a newspaper to build online circulation: keep irritating the gun owners because they always respond the same way.

I do not agree, another Virginia paper tried this stunt a few years ago and we had it stopped in a couple days. We contacted their advertisers and they had a change of heart.

I do agree that contacting this glorified typist is a waste of time. We need to contact the advertisers and also the managing editors.

 

[jeepmor]

What a cowardly move. Geez, pick on real criminals, not real law abiding citizens. Hit up the revenue stream for the paper and leave this bloke out of it. He can answer to his bosses why the paper is losing ad money.

I live in Oregon, surprised the Oregonian has pulled this crap.

BTW, which reps do you write to stop such a list from being public. My governor, local district rep, US senators, etc. I think it more important that we become active in making this information inaccessible to these people with no regard for human safety, like Mr. Trejbal, as opposed to railing against him. He is an indicator of the problem, but not to blame for having access to said information, just being deplorable enough to publish it.

It's like Rosie, if we give her press, it helps her regardless of whether it is negative or postive for her, it press about her, so it helps her.

Sure, I'd like to condone some not so High Road stuff for this guy, but that doesn't help our cause, just his.