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(VA) Police say homeowner 'scared for his life;' suspect shot 10 times

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Drizzt, Jul 30, 2005.

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  1. Drizzt

    Drizzt Member

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    Shooting in Bluefield

    Police say homeowner 'scared for his life;' suspect shot 10 times

    Posted: Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 09:38:03 pm EDT
    By ALYESHA ASGHAR
    Bluefield Daily Telegraph

    BLUEFIELD - Police in Bluefield continued their investigation Friday into the shooting death of a Bluefield, Va. man, who sustained 10 gunshot wounds following an apparent altercation Thursday night.

    "Witnesses say that Ricardo Lee, 40, who was an acquaintance of the homeowner, forced his way into the Hubbard residence without permission," Lt. Tom Helton, with the Bluefield Police Department, said. "He had a knife in his hand and the owner of the house had asked him to leave repeatedly, but Lee refused. Witnesses said Lee wanted to talk to someone in the house."

    According to Helton, Dennis Hubbard, 57, the owner of the home at 210 Poplar St. told him that he (Hubbard) was in fear of his life and shot Lee 10 times with a .38 caliber pistol. Helton said the shooting occurred at approximately 9 p.m.

    Lee was transported to Bluefield Regional Medical Center by Bluefield Rescue Squad where he died as a result of his injuries, Helton said.

    http://www.bdtonline.com/articles/2005/07/16/news/01death.txt
     
  2. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    Sounds like a good shoot to me.

    This part is a little puzzling though:

     
  3. Davo

    Davo Member

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    1 shot. or 10...he was justified-he shot till the threat no longer was one.
     
  4. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    .380 maybe? I can't think of one that has a magazine that big off the top of my head, but I don't doubt that such an animal exists.
     
  5. berettashotgun

    berettashotgun Member

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    Hahaha... HAD to be a .38, otherwise the homeowner would've got in trouble for "excessive" force :p
     
  6. 71Commander

    71Commander Member

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    Azrael256

    Browning BDA. 13 shot.

    If it was a .38 and had to reload, shoot em once or shoot em to the ground. outcome is no different.
     
  7. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Member

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    From articles I've seen, "shooting to slidelock" when in fear of one's life is not that uncommon.
     
  8. PX15

    PX15 Member

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    Hey, I'm all for home defense, and if it takes 10 to do the job, so be it.

    I just wonder how the fact that 5 or 6 wasn't enough to STOP THE THREAT, so a "reload" was required, will play out in the legal system.

    I don't think we are really assured of a reasonable defense when we take a life in this circumstance. I'm not saying the guy wasn't within his rights in protecting himself, or his loved ones, I just think there's gonna be a phone call from the deceased's relatives to a crooked lawyer, and it's gonna get nasty even if the shooter isn't charged by the Police.

    And, it's gonna get EXPENSIVE too......

    Does the phrase "overkill" ring a bell?

    Glad he stopped him, just wish (as a gunowner myself) he could have done it in the first 5 or 6. The reloading, and shooting another 4 or 5 times just seems like leaving the arena of self defence to another thing entirely.

    JMO.

    Best Wishes
    JP :D
     
  9. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    I seriously doubt a reload occurred but I chuckled when I read the article thinking "Damn dude reloaded and kept on going."

    My guess is that it was a .380 like everybody else said and he shot till slide lock.

    I don't ever want to shoot anything that bleeds or ever had a mother and I know I would be so scared out of my wits that I would go to slidelock. I am sure some of you train to the point of reflexive double taps, assess other threats and continue but I suspect the great great majority of us would simply keep squeezing till the threat fell to the ground and considering that the human animal is a tough beastie barring a CNS shot in the amount of time it would take the average person to drop a whole magazine the threat would probably still be standing or just in the process of going down.

    Prayers for the guy who did the shooting. Sounds like a good shoot and here is hoping it plays out that way and that he is able to deal with the inevitable emotional issues that he will have to deal with.

    One of the things the pisses me off more than anything as far as crime goes is that if some scumbag trys to kill somebody and that person is forced to kill them then the good guy still gets robbed of a certain level of emotional well being. Well at least I know I would.

    Chris
     
  10. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    "From articles I've seen, "shooting to slidelock" when in fear of one's life is not that uncommon."

    This is very true, as I have read the same thing.

    It does sound like a good shoot.

    Alot depends on what the BG was doing. Was he still a threat to the homeowner? If he was then needing to reload and protect yourself/family is not an issue.

    But, was the BG wriggling on the floor because he had just been shot, not necessarily a threat, and the GG reloaded and kept shooting? Then he might have a problem. Of course he could claim the BG kept moving towards him and or the knife.
     
  11. carebear

    carebear Member

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    When reporters hear or read a police report with ".380 (acp)" in it they generally don't have a clue about guns and assume it's a typo for ".38 (special)". That's if the cop talking to them or filling out the report writes it down correctly in the first place.

    Remember, a journalism degree just makes you qualified to report the news, it doesn't mean you know any real information about the news. :rolleyes:
     
  12. HogRider

    HogRider Member

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    Would sound reasonable to me if this was a snub nose 38 with a speed loader. Some people actually do practice reloads with those once in a while. :)
     
  13. BryanP

    BryanP Member

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    Taurus makes .380's with 10, 12, and 15 round magazine capacities. The Bersa Thunder .380 Deluxe has a 9-round magazine, so he could have had 9 in the mag and one in the chamber.

    I'm sure there are other pistols that fit the facts.
     
  14. carebear

    carebear Member

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    Might have been a full-race, double-stacked, comped .38 Super. :D
     
  15. Steelcore

    Steelcore member

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    It could have been a .38 Super Automatic.They hold 9+1.
     
  16. TODD3465

    TODD3465 Member

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    And don't forget the .38Super either.

    Not common but still out there.
     
  17. Navy87Guy

    Navy87Guy Member

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    Glock 25 (.380 ACP) holds 15 rounds and the Glock 28 holds 10...although they're not supposed to be available to civililans in the US (I don't know why). There's also the SW1911 in .38 Super that has a 10-round magazine. Of course if the guy had a $2000+ pistol, you would hope that he would have a little more composure operating it. While shooting to slide lock may be a natural reaction, part of the idea of training with firearms is to instill new habits...like aiming, control, etc.

    I know...easy to say because I wasn't the guy having to do the shooting. And while there's no guarantee I wouldn't do the same thing (except he'd be wearing 15 or 17 rounds of 9 mm instead!) that doesn't stop me from trying to train and learn against the possibility that someday I might have to use my firearm to protect myself or my family.
     
  18. PX15

    PX15 Member

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    "overkill"?

    When I read the initial post where the dead guy was shot 10 times with a 38cal pistol I, (possibly incorrectly) ASSUMED (and we know what that means) that the "pistol" was in fact a 38 Cal Revolver, which "generally" has a capacity of 6 or 7 rounds.

    What I forgot was that whoever wrote the article probably didn't have a clue as to whether it was a 5 or 6 shot revolver, or a semi-automatic pistol of some 38cal sounding round.. (380 for example).

    In retrospect IF the firearm was indeed a 5/6 shot revolver a reload was obviously done.. IF the firearm was a "pistol" with a magazine then I can completely understand how the whole magazine could easily have been emptied at the deceased.

    It's so easy to forget that it seems the majority of people writing articles in America's newpapers DON'T seem to know anything about firearms. Sad, but true.

    I know if someone breaks into our house and threatens my wife or myself we will most likely be seriously scared enough to deplete whatever number of rounds the firearm we pick up first is capable of firing.

    If I can reach the 12ga. pump riot shotgun, a reload will NOT be necessary.

    JP :D
     
  19. Chrontius

    Chrontius Member

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    Rule 37: There is no overkill. There is only "Open fire" and "I need to reload"
    - Howard Tayler
     
  20. Otherguy Overby

    Otherguy Overby member

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    Now if it woulda been my 9x23, the first magazine would have been 20 rounds (19+1) If I would then have reloaded and put the "big stick" in, it would have been another 29 rounds.

    Otherguy, why'd you shoot him 49 times?

    Me: Sheesh at $12.99 a box, I figured that was enough. You think I should shoot him some more?
     
  21. Partisan Ranger

    Partisan Ranger Member

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    Man unlawfully enters house in Virginia with knife and won't leave....soon shall be dead. Unless it's Northern VA near DC, then the feel-good liberal type would probably hand him his wife and television as a good will gesture.
     
  22. HankB

    HankB Member

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    There's a .38 Auto round, too, sometimes called .38 ACP . . . same dimensions as .38 Super, but lower pressure.

    Sounds like the homeowner actually got 10 hits, which is better than most LEOs in gunfights seem to do. :D
     
  23. chopinbloc

    chopinbloc Member

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    clint smith had a good article in american handgunner about feeling guilty after a good shoot. he says (as we all know) there is no reason to feel bad because it was the other guy's actions that caused his demise as surely as strolling across a busy freeway. he goes on to say that most of the people he's talked to didn't exactly lose any sleep over wasting some oxygen thief who was trying to kill them. i can't say for sure how i'd feel, but to be perfectly honest, i don't think a good, clean shoot would bother me much at all.
     
  24. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    That paper's not know for it's accuracy.


    Bob
     
  25. musher

    musher Member

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    I'm impressed he hit the guy with 10 shots---ESPECIALLY if it turns out that was what he had in the gun.

    Of course, he coulda been loaded up like otherguy. That would be a more typical rate of hit to miss.
     
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