Varmint Hunting

[Dizos]

I realize varmint hunting is very popular in the gun community. I personally feel it is wrong to kill for entertainment. I was always taught that taking a life is serious business and to always eat what I kill. I realize that in some instances varmints do cause problems but it seems like most varmint hunting is done for entertainment only, with only a vague justification of "those animals are bad". I constantly read posts on this forum about folks picking off prairie dogs, coyotes, snakes, crows...

I'm curious how varmint hunters justify the sport. I do not intend this post to be a personal attack but as an enquiry into the varmint hunting mentality. Is there a code of ethics that varminit hunters adhere to?

 

[bogie]

Well, once a groundhog cost me $35,000 - Dug out under the corner of a barn until it basically just sorta tilted...

I hates them groundhogs. Hates them, hates them...

Their holes don't do much for horses and cattle's legs either.

 

[shermacman]

I, too, am not into killing for the fun of it. I will not kill an animal that I don't intend to eat...That is an ironclad rule in my firearm book. Here is another ironclad rule: squirrels, regular old squirrels here in the suburbs of Massachusetts. I shoot them with my Dad's Winchester .22 rifle with 42 grain sub-sonics. I will shoot them in the rain, I will shoot them in the sun, I will shoot them anywhere! They eat through the siding, roofing and insulation of a house, they chew up gardens, kill song birds, dump trash, spread disease and they obviously vote for Democrats...
And no, I do not eat them.

 

[Orthonym]

Oh, yeah, squirrels

Arthur C. Clarke had a character in one of his stories call them "tree rats",as being much easier to shoot than "dear little squirrels". When I lived in Atlanta they were a serious problem, would chew out your roof from the inside. I recall seeing one of my super-nonviolent vegan-lesbian-feminist neighbors go after them with a pellet rifle, she was so hopping mad at the way they were chewing on her house.

 

[lunde]

Do you mean like this?

http://www.dogbegone.com/video.htm

 

[Orthonym]

Oh, and didn't I read recently about some humans catching some horrible disease from pet prairie dogs? I do wonder, though, how the bisons managed to avoid being crippled by stepping in p-dog holes back when they were the only large herbivores around.

 

[Brian Williams]

Prairie Dogs are known carriers of Bubonic Plague and the newest craze in pet shop horrors the Monkey Virus. Ground Hogs will eat themselves up to and over 20 pounds in a nice alfalfa field along with making nice holes for cows and horses to break their leg in at night. Squirrels are the greatest cause of telephone and power outages, they chew the lines and cause the cable to get wet and corrode. I will not shoot any animal just for the sport but I wll work on getting a lower count of population of varmits

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

While I don't "hunt" varmints much anymore (except for the occasional prairie dog foray) I will kill a coyote on sight. If you've ever seen coyotes kill a calf they've taken from a hip-locked cow giving birth, or seen coyotes eat a crippled old dog in his doghouse, or lure a pet dog out into the woods while playing, and then kill and eat it, then you wouldn't be so concerned about their 'sanctity of life'. I know some people say "that's just thier nature. Well, it's MY nature to shoot them with a 25-06.

Fox squirrels too. I find the .17 HMR does a nice job on the nasty little diggers.

Oh, and didn't I read recently about some humans catching some horrible disease from pet prairie dogs? I do wonder, though, how the bisons managed to avoid being crippled by stepping in p-dog holes back when they were the only large herbivores around.

Prairie dogs carry bubonic plaque. And bison, like cows, actually WATCH WHERE THEIR GOING. Horses are the ones usually crippled by p-dog holes.

 

[digex]

What they all said. In a rural area such as where I live, the entire economy depends on agriculture and farming. In turn, farming depends on other things. Rain being a nice one, and healthy crops and livestock. A crippled animal is very costly to a farmer. The fact that prairie dogs destroy farming land doesn't help either. It's said that 12 jack-rabbits can graze as much in a day as a single cow. Guess what? Farmers don't appreciate that either. The dog towns also attract helacious mosquitoes and flies, etc. I shouldn't have to remind you of the danger of the explosive growth of west nile virus. There are many reasons that "varmints" get blasted. In my area, it's a necessity of life. Sure, I enjoy doing it, busting pups is a blast. I don't think that makes me less of a person because I do. In one of the pastures I "work" in, there a few deer and fox that I see every time out. Beautiful animals! The big doe will normally run alongside my truck until she gets a break in the fence, then take off for the river. I know where I'll be come deer season!
I have a strict definition of what's a "varmint" when I'm out there and I won't shoot anything else. Maybe not much consolation to the PETA people out there, but that's business, and if I can enjoy my work, so much the better.

 

[standingbear]

some farmers will "pay" you to shoot groundhogs.they can do serious damage to a farm,especially foundations of barns,livestock injuries and broken machinery that bounced from hitting a hole in the field.i strickly use ballistic tipped ammo for them.its very humane.i have twisted my ankle more than a dozen times stepping in their holes hunting artifacts,fell off the bailing wagon bailing straw, that bounced after hitting a hole and wrecked a 4 wheeler mudrunning through a field.

 

[telomerase]

Let's not forget rats

Rattus norwegicus, bane of small chickenhouses. And of course if you lived around rattlesnakes and cottonmouths you'd just let them kill your dogs, right? Face it, there are a lot of animals that don't think we're tougher than they are... and they could still be right. The only people who don't believe in killing other animals are the ones who never leave the city.

 

[digex]

The only people who don't believe in killing other animals are the ones who never leave the city.

Exactly!

 

[dakotasin]

oh you guys are forgetting skunks. they smell bad enough to stink out an entire farmyard for a day or two at a time, they are as destructive as any other vermin on buildings, and around here the statistics are alarming on how many carry rabies...don't remember how many, but something along the lines of 70%...and if you've ever had a dog tangle w/ a skunk, you can easily see how that becomes a rapid problem (the smell being the least of my worries), especially when your kids want to play w/ the dog...

yep, i shoot skunks on sight. same for coyotes. badgers and coons, too (and badgers are downright mean... was out calling coyotes one day, had a badger come in... figured out what the game was and came after me... he absorbed 3 shots w/ the 243 to end the situation).

if you don't want to shoot varmints, that is fine. but to question those of us who do, especially those of us who have to work the land to make a buck, is ignorant.

there's an ugly side to wildlife, too... the way they kill each other is nothing pleasant (ever see a hawk take a rabbit? how about a coon take a dog? coyote and deer, etc).

 

[Dizos]

if you don't want to shoot varmints, that is fine. but to question those of us who do, especially those of us who have to work the land to make a buck, is ignorant.

I'm just trying to understand more about the varmint hunting community and what code of ethics goes along with it. That is why am I asking. I have no issues with people removing pests that are causing financial damage or interfering with their livelihood or safety. Fact is, many (most) varmint hunter don't work the land for money and they are out in public lands blowing away animals and leaving them them there to rot. Respect for killing was one of the many rules taught to me about responsibly owning a firearm, and I believe a major theme in our gun culture.

 

[digex]

I don't know about shooting on public lands, I've never done it. I can tell you that the carcass that is left behind will most certainly not rot. It'll get used. Birds, coyotes, other prairie dogs (they're cannibals) will take care of what's left. As far as ethics goes, I guess I just try to keep it quick and clean. If I screw up and wound one, I try to finish it off before it gets to a hole (rare occurance). Same ethics as shooting any animal I suppose. I don't want them to suffer, but I don't want them to be there either.
I get a lot of different response when people find out what I do in my spare time, and I just tell them that it has to be done. Do I enjoy it? Yes. Without a doubt it is one of my favorite ways to spend an afternoon. I guess there is some sort of emotional detachment that goes with it. After all, I'm out there killing up to 25 of them in an afternoon. But I'm also a strong animal lover and conservationist. I could never imagine hurting most any animal I come across, but varmints somehow don't register anywhere for me. Even in deer season, I feel a twinge of doubt right before I pull the trigger. None for the PD's though.
Just my .02 on it.

 

[Dave R]

My justification is as follows.

Look at a piece of prairie that has not been chewed up by Prairie Dogs.

Then look at a piece of prairie that has.

(Or better yet, walk through it without breaking a leg.)

Gotta save the prairie.

 

[dakotasin]

another reason for prairie doggin' is it makes you a far better shot for deer season. after my first year of sitting on a dog town, i noted that i simply didn't miss inside of 400 yards. now, when i deer hunt, it is a 1-shot affair. so if a few prairie dogs don't make it to spread disease or cannibalize other 'dogs so that the deer i kill this fall is killed cleanly, then so be it.

prairie dogs work better than paper targets because they pop up at odd yardages (417 yards, 836, 542, etc etc) instead of the neat 50 yard increments that we shoot at on the range. also, because they are reactive targets, you don't have to walk downrange to check to see that you hit. you know that when he is doing somersaults 4 feet in the air that you hit him (perhaps a touch low, but still fatally shot)...

as far as a code of ethics goes, it is the same as big game. they are living, breathing creatures that did not ask you to shoot them. treat them the same as big game in that you strive for a clean, quick kill. if something goes awry, finish the job as quickly as possible.

i'm not sure about the public lands bit... at least here it is pretty tough to do, especially when large tracts of land are closed to prairie doggin' so that some flippin' ferret (that may be fun to shoot but can't be shot) can feel more comfortable... at any rate, all my varminting is done on private land.

 

[lunde]

Hear, hear!

My next trip to South Dakota is on the 13th of this month.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

I still have a standing invite to a ranch in western OK. to help control the jackrabbit population. It doesn't take long for them to multiply to destructive levels. The animals I shoot are happpily donated to some Vietnamese friends who greatly appreciate the additional fare. The dishes that are made using the meat are actually very good. I am always being invited to share meals with them and their families.

 

[Art Eatman]

Dizos, the varmint hunting community is no more homogeneous than is the total gun-owning community. There are as many different ideas and views as there are in a group of liberals or conservatives or any other human "community".

I have no doubt that some are satisfying a blood lust, but it's my opinion that these are relatively few. More are doing it for recreation, but knowing they're maintaining a certain balance of the particular varmint population in the absence of natural enemies. I'd guess--but don't know for sure--that even more are protecting crops or livestock. These latter two, the vast majority, work together.

Federal ownership does not mean active protection of habitat. From what I've read of governmental activities on public lands during these last thirty or so years, there is more neglect than effort toward maintenance of an older status quo, or improvement toward an earlier "unspoiled" time. The efforts are to control people. As usual, cherchez le budget: Erosion control? Wildlife population balances? Planting of native plants?

For instance, regardless of one's views of DDT, we know there has been a time of dramatically reduced raptor populations. During this time certain populations exploded, with one notable example being prairie dogs.

Regardless of reason, the only control available is human effort of whatever sort. As long as there seems to be some reasonable balance of wildlife populations, individual motivations are irrelevant. "Bad" motivations are only important in one's choice of companions.

, Art

 

[Dizos]

Thank you for the responses. This has been educational for me. I'm glad I asked.

 

[Bruz]

My whole life I believed and taught that if you are not going to eat it, don't kill it...have definantly changed my mind. A "varment" is named that for a reason. They carry disease, they are distructive, and if you want to eat this I'll send it to ya!

 

[digex]

haha! Put it in a manilla envelope. Wonder what postage is for something like that?

 

[Bigjake]

AMEN BRUZ

my code of ethics. bored on a friday night and want to have some fun with my hard earned rifle skill, go kill some groundhogs. coyote out in the field, shoot it. crow out back while plinking, good-bye. canadian geese out in the field.... well, you know. i enjoy killing these pesky critters. seems like good enough reason for me.

 

[Joe Demko]

i enjoy killing these pesky critters. seems like good enough reason for me.

Here we reach the heart of the matter. Enjoyment as a reason. As a biologist, I don't get sentimental over animals, but I also recognize that such concepts as "varmint" and "pest" are purely human constructs. Prairie dogs are a problem because the creatures that normally would have kept their numbers down (e.g. the black-footed ferret) were extirpated through human activity. So, if the prairie dog is a varmint or a pest, it is because we made it so.
Kill them or don't, as you please; they are only animals. Be honest, though, like BigJake, and if you are killing them for enjoyment, admit it.