Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by tuckerdog1, Oct 2, 2016.
You are making an awful big leap here. Why?
Its really not too much of a leap to think that maybe the OP makes way too many private sales and is being investigated for same.
We've had two guys here that are doing time for illegal sales. One was a dealer that sold a private gun of his off the books. Turned out the guy was a felon and killed a cop with it. That was worth 20 years IIRC.
Other was just a private dude, but he'd set up tables at swap meets, etc. Got whacked and is doing time.
I'd suspect if you are moving more than six a year, you could be considered a dealer. More likely, it's their discretion, so if they want to get you for something else, that's another charge tacked on top.
It has always been my understanding that 5 sales is the limit per 12 month calendar; and, that understanding goes back probably 40yrs. Cross that threshold and you're courtin' the wrath of the BATF. They are not fun to play with.
I don't usually sell guns, but when I do, I always make clear to the buyer on first contact that I'll need to make a copy of their ID and a bill of sale. They get the same from me. If that's not agreed as part of the deal - don't waste my time or yours. Have a nice day.
Guys, please, there absolutely is not a number of sales per X period of time that means you are or are not in the business and need an FFL
Very true. But the EO that Obama signed earlier this year certainly frowns upon multiple sales by unlicensed individuals. Here's an exerpt of the EO, which can be found at:
"Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present."
Because again IMHO, it shows you at least made an attempt to discern if the buyer was prohibited or not. Pretty simple and painless. Why would one not ask it, other than they are afraid they won't make the sale?
This is true. One could sell their whole collection of hundreds of firearms in one day if they wanted to. Comes down to the determination if one is solely buying and selling guns for profit.
There are people that buy cars from nothing more than a photo. Lots of people spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on things they have never seen or held, most people call them vacations.
I would guess he was a bit nervous. After all, he was a guy showing up with cash to meet a stranger who was showing up with a gun! Albeit one he planned to buy. Nonetheless, I suspect he was nervous and just wanted to move on. There'll probably be a post on a board somewhere like "Wow...I'll never do that again!!! Scary dude sold me a gun. Thought sure he was gonna rob me!!! Turned out well but I was glad to get away alive and not robbed. Very scary dude". You've not said what you looked like
^^^now that's funny.
I often wonder what the other side of the story is in these types of threads. What does that "dumb guy at the gun counter" think of the "know it all" customer. Or the "dumb person in line at Walmart" think of the "the other person in line at Walmart".
I'm not saying anything about what one would or should choose to do or not to do.
I am saying it is not required that you ask. You or I thinking it's a great idea to ask if they are prohibited doesn't mean everybody is required to do so.
I was too casual once. I counted out the wrong amount of cash and drove home with the gun. Felt like a real jerk when the previous owner went home and told me he came up short. I mailed the balance ASAP but I'll never know if the seller thought it was intentional or not.
Thats the reason I always count it out, whether buying or selling. No shame in counting it. I've counted it back to people after they gave ME extra. It just keeps things clear and concise.
Honest people get burned by shady people, and learn the unpleasant truth that not everyone has the same standards of decency.
It happened again this week! Sold another pistol in the box, and after the cash was handed over, the buyer didn't even care to open the box & look at it.
You just must have that "honest" vibe that people sense. Personally I do like to at least do a quick inspection before I purchase a firearm.
I've done a few private sales in a parking lot myself. It became illegal here a few years ago so I'm done with that. Our carry permits don't have a photo on them so would be easy to fake. It's illegal to sell a firearm to someone who isn't a resident of your state so I always ask for a driver's license. I had a form (bill of sale) that I ask the buyer to fill out with his DL info and sign it. No info, no sale.
My take on this is you just sold a gun to someone who showed you a counterfeit permit. There are more people out there trying to buy weapons illegally than you realize. I bumped into a few when I was doing private sales. I hope you got his permit or DL info because it's probably going to come up. You're probably in the clear but I think you may have been used.
He likely trusted you. I believe far too many people in the gun business are very pessimistic about other gun owners. I put up an ad to trade/sell one of my 9mms that I didn't really like. An older man responded that he wanted to trade his 380 for it. I was looking for a pocket gun so I agreed to meet the fellow. I asked him why he was getting rid of the 380, if it had problems etc. He had a hard time pulling the slide so he didn't want it. I talked with him for awhile and suggested my 9mm may not be a good trade for him. I taught him the push technique for pulling a slide and that seemed to help. I got close to refusing the trade because I did not want this man to have a firearm he would not be safe with if he couldn't manipulate the slide, even though I wanted that 380. Eventually we did the trade and I gave him my email address and phone number if he had other questions. He has and I have done my best to help every way I can.
The buyer didnt even take a look at it before paying and leaving? Could have been a brick in the box. Doesn't smell right to me.
These private transactions out of public view could be risky. There are likely people that would take advantage of someone offering a handgun for sale.
If it worried you that much then why did you trade.
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