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Vets unsuitable to be gun owners?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by dbp, Feb 22, 2013.

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  1. dbp

    dbp Member

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  2. hipoint

    hipoint Member

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    I for one would like to see more of the letter than a paragraph before I made up my mind... I certainly respect veterans for their service mind you, but that's not much to go on. I deal with the V.A. quite a bit where I work and it is really sad what they put these folks through.
     
  3. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    I really wish he would have posted a copy of the letter. But taking a look at this quotation from the article: “A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition," it makes it look like such a determination has not been made. Further, "incompetency" is a vague term in legal aspects; in order for someone to lose their firearm rights they must be "adjudicated mentally ill/defective" per the 4473. That adjudication is made by a mental health professional and requires due process to be upheld (that being a function of the judicial branch rather than the executive, since the piece blames the current administration), and is a standard generally correlated with involuntary commitment.

    While I'm interested in seeing the letter and wish he would have posted it, even that would require some context. If a person communicated that they were a threat to themselves or others, it would not be surprising if they received a letter notifying them that a hearing might occur in which they could be adjudicated unfit for firearms ownership.

    Obviously, if true this would ultimately do harm to public health and the health of veterans as a whole by disincentivizing going in for treatment if someone had PTSD, depression, or alcoholism but was not a danger to themselves or others.

    Having said all that, I'll stay tuned. But my pitchfork isn't coming out until I see more information and more context.
     
  4. dbp

    dbp Member

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    If you go to the bottom of the page of the linked article and click on "more here" and go to the bottom of that article you will see the three part letter. The letter comes out of the VA Affairs office in Portland, Oregon.

    I was just wondering if anyone on THR had received one?
     
  5. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Thanks! I pulled it up, but Chrome wouldn't zoom in any more. I had to squint, but the relevant section is certainly there. Of course, we still don't have the context. I understand that whomever received this may wish to remain private, but I'd still like to know more.
     
  6. dbp

    dbp Member

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    Yes, I am sure you are correct. I wasn't thinking when I asked for anyone receiving this to admit it.

    I too would like to know more about this situation.
     
  7. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    Our military should get alot more help & support...in many many ways....when they come home. They are more likely to commit suicide, like police, than many other groups. And sadly even killing their families but as far as I know, they are not more likely to commit 'crimes.' (I realize that murder is of course, a crime).

    Altho I have one friend in N. CA that speaks highly of his VA and the treatment he gets, most others I hear from....treatment and basic services are a disgrace. I think it's a crime to cut money from VA hospitals and programs...it's like we made a deal with these men, they held up their end of the deal, and then we just drop the ball for so many after we're 'done with them.'
     
  8. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    From what I read on another site - posted by someone with better eyesight than me for those 3 little images that won't open properly - the letter is informing the applicant that the VA is ready to make a decision on competency and asking if the person agrees or would like to submit additional info/medical opinions, etc.

    John
     
  9. Zeke/PA

    Zeke/PA Member

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    Vets??
    Don't EVEN get me started.
    Lot's of Vets are sleeping under bridges as we speak and NOBODY cares.
    Meanwhile, TONS of money is sent elsewhere in the world for "foreign aid" purposes.
    Say what you will our first concern should be our Vets and our Elderly.
    BUT, we NEED the Middle East's Oil, RIGHT???
    i GET sooooo sick of hearing the retoric of CORRUPT politics!
     
  10. dbp

    dbp Member

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  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Isn't the determination of incompetency tied with treatment and benefits? Seems like the best solution is to reject both and keep your lips together.
     
  12. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

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    A fellow OEF vet told me about this. He found it on redflagnews or something so I didn't pay much attention. Since breitbart, blaze, redflag, and similar sources are about as accurate as The Onion or Duffel Blog usually.

    Doesn't surprise me. This is why tons of vets don't talk about PTSD with anyone at the VA or and named system.
     
  13. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Isn't the determination of incompetency tied with treatment and benefits?"

    I believe it's more about ability to handle the money, buy food, pay bills, etc. I could tell you how the VA handled it years ago, but I'm retired now and have no idea about their current policy.

    For perspective, the Social Security system provides for a Representative Payee when the disabled person is determined to be incapable of handling the monthly check.

    www.socialsecurity.gov/ssi/text-repayee-ussi.htm

    "A representative payee is a person, agency, organization or institution we select to manage your funds when we determine that you are unable to do so yourself. "
     
  14. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    Hate to say it but "A determination of incompetency" means you are not competent for a lot of things. You are giving up a lot of your rights, you are pretty much no longer considered an adult. Its a pretty serious step.
     
  15. Fishslayer

    Fishslayer Member

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    Isn't veteran status also one of the red flags for a domestic terrorist in that DOJ flier that was going around? Like paying cash for things and having more than a couple weeks food in the house?
     
  16. Coop45

    Coop45 Member

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    I haven't heard of anything new coming down the pike, but with TBI's and high ratings for PTSD that determination is possible.
     
  17. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Yep, theres rumors concerning various letters from the VA along with questions of gun ownership by VA doctors. This 80 percent disabled vet has never seen any of these letters and had never been asked any questions about gun ownership.

    Its all trash.
     
  18. gym

    gym member

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    It's all about control, they know that Vets know how to use a weapon, and that is on the crap list of things they are trying to do away with. If anything ever did happen, Vets would be in a position of leading others who have less or no experience in surviving during times of strife.
    First the guns, then the ammo, then the manufacturers, and finally the folks who have the best training in the world.
    It's like a terminator movie. Uncle Sam spent millions on teaching guys how to penetrate enemy lines and survive off the land, along with snipers, explosive experts, and just about everything that could come back to bite them, so of course they now want them made into docile unarmed manaquins.
    I am sure that their protocalls include drugs to make them unable to function past a certain point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  19. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    The whole letter.

    Much more illuminating than cherry picked paragraphs. I'm still concerned with the fact that it could apply to a mental or PHYSICAL condition which presents evidence as to the recipient being unable to handle his/her VA benefit payments.

    All three pages are at the bottom of this page:

    http://redflagnews.com/headlines/di...iving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition

    First off the primary issue is the recipients ability to handle the benefits as a sign of incompetence, secondly, how could a physical incompetence alter one's rights to own a firearm?

    Sounds like an American's With Disabilities Act lawsuit waiting to happen to me.
     
  20. rdhood

    rdhood Member

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    Actually, not so much anymore, and not for much longer.
     
  21. oldbear

    oldbear Member

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    Folks this is fear mongering on the part of the person posting this.

    The portion of the letter posted states that “a determination of incompetency” Not you have been determined to be or we suspect you are. Again one sentence in the letter simply informs the receiver of federal law, nothing more nothing less.

    I'm also pleased that almost everyone who has all ready posted has been quick to question the intent of the letter and perhaps the person who Originally posted it, "Posted by Jim Hoft on Friday, February 22, 2013, 6:11 AM"
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  22. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    No, not really, it's SOP for the VA, lets not think too much about this, most of the time these cases are run up the system via family and VA social workers, where a vet is having difficulty with their own finances/care.
     
  23. dbp

    dbp Member

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    Hey - Oldbear, I am the OP in this thread. Let me be sure I understand, are you saying that I am fear mongering and have some nefarious intent here? Or are you speaking about the author of the article?
     
  24. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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  25. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    I didn't get that impression at all, and I'm usually one of the people most ready to call out rumor-mongerers on gun boards. You did everything right by putting a question mark rather than an exclamation point in your thread title. Further, the entire point of your post was to solicit feedback on something that's unconfirmed. I for one am I glad you brought it up.
     
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