Viability of *Real* Pocket (And Micro) Handguns in Today’s World

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Mr. Mosin, Nov 1, 2021.

  1. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    The goal is to carry the gun you shoot the best in the most powerful caliber. But different age groups, body types, jobs, clothing requirements etc force you to compromise. I'm pushing 72, I used to carry full size everywhere. Not anymore. Lately I've settled on the p365. I could see me going lighter down the line. Be well!
     
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  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Let me paint you a picture of "Today's World" that is a true reality for some of us.

    I grew up in Los Angeles area (City of Arcadia next to City of Pasadena) and went to college in downtown LA near infamous East LA and sound of police sirens and choppers flying with search lights were the norm. I had an apartment in City of El Sereno, the bedroom town for some of the gangs.

    Criminals and gang bangers law enforcement had to content with were sometimes better gunned and police switched from revolvers and shotguns to semi-autos and AR15s during the decades I grew up in the 70s and 80s around the LA basin counties.

    When I graduated from college, I was happy to leave crime ridden LA for central valley cities but gangs decided they wanted to expand their drug distribution and expand their presence up and down the golden state of CA where majority of country's supply of Meth was produced.

    My sister and I experienced total of 3 break ins and I had to apprehend the robber during the third break in. After 20 years of marriage, wife and I decided to leave the metropolitan central valley city of Bakersfield where home invasion robberies/rape/murder by multiple gang members were the norm and police chief/sheriff announced each year that homeowners had to fend for ourselves until police could respond and issued national record setting gun permits several years in a row. Pistol and shotgun were no longer "sufficient" and multiple pistols and ARs were added for home defense along with 3 guard dogs and welded fence around our house with metal security doors.

    Wife and I are celebrating 28 years together this month now living in quiet low crime retirement location by the ocean but after switching from 9mm to 40S&W (Glock 22/23/27), we haven't gone back other than adding 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbines.

    Do I live in fear? As an ex medic in the Army, not anymore. (But we also have 4 dogs on our fenced acreage to give me plenty of time to get in "fear" mode ;))

    Am I a realist? Yes, to the point where I don't need to carry a gun to enjoy my retirement around town. Heck on most days, I don't even carry my pocket knife anymore.

    What would I tell someone who still lived in high crime gang land for "minimum" carry? At least 9mm and as many rounds/spare magazines as one can carry. It's my opinion that if you NEED to carry a gun, you should carry something that will be an EFFECTIVE WEAPON to protect you and your loved ones.

    Of course, this is my perspective of "Today's World". Your version of "Today's World" may vary and a pocket knife may be more than sufficient for you to "feel" safe and any caliber "pocket gun" may do.

    I wonder what people of Portland/Seattle chose to carry now after all the riots - https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/all-the-riots-started-it-gun-sales-skyrocket-in-oregon/ar-BB1dYS59
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2021
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  3. Mr. Mosin

    Mr. Mosin Member

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    Once again... if it isn’t on your person, it’s useless.
     
  4. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    No one needs to carry a gun until he or she needs to draw it.

    It does not matter whether one " 'feels' safe". What matters is whether one is equipped to defend oneself should the risk occur.
     
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  5. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    giphy.gif

    Right.
    Carrying at all means you entertain the idea of "what if" or "just in case"; meaning, if I had to defend myself with lethal force.
    The point (goal) of carrying is to stop attacker(s) ASAP hopefully before they can inflict serious or lethal injury.
    I carry a handgun that I think better suited to achieving that goal, so for me Glock 19 > 380 LCP anywhere, everywhere.
    I say anywhere, everywhere because I'm not limited by work clothes and very content to go about with my sloven untucked shirt wherever.

    When someone implies "doing it right" (carrying a handgun I'd prefer if I had to defend myself) is living in fear, I get a vision of them carrying what is convenient rather than what they would prefer to defend themself and probably unrequired shirt tucking.
     
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  6. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    That's the thing, most people aren't "gun people." Having started concealed carry myself, it's quickly apparent how big and heavy even a S&W Shield is, let alone larger guns or all metal ones. Also, for most people, It's hard to conceal such larger guns comfortably. IWB isn't comfortable with large guns, at all. Pocket carry barely works with a snub nose revolver or subcompact. Most locations it isn't advisable to open carry or OWB, or may be illegal.

    The reality is that despite all the "Ideal" carry people advise, a lot of individuals will not want to carry a larger handgun, and if they are carrying a small one, they want one that is manageable i.e. not a large caliber. This is reality. It often seems like many gun folks just won't accept the reality of people and your average gun owner. Meet them where they are at, and give them advice that actually meets them where they are at, not brow beating them for not carrying a 1911 or Glock 19.

    Frankly, while I carried a S&W Shield the last week due to colder weather coming upon us, I much prefer smaller firearms especially during warm weather. Many guns simply are too big for some seasons and dress.

    As others have said, in a majority of situations, having a gun is sufficient to stop most encounters, and even when fired will stop most situations. For most people, in a variety of emergency situations, 95% preparedness is good enough without going overboard. It's like prepping for disasters. It's wise to have several week's of non-perishable goods and water. Can one have more? Absolutely. Might there be more serious, low probability SHTF disasters that this would require months of supplies to survive? Absolutely. But, most people either don't have the bandwidth, or the finances, to do long-term prepping. It's the same with firearms. Some protection and preparation is better than none. Preparing for 95%+ of situations is still preparing for a lot.
     
  7. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    Being prepared "95%" is a pretty high bar, not a lower one. Personally, Id say many are lucky if they break 40-50%.

    I think whats at play here is, you have groups of people who have different ideas as to what all this is. Some think having a gun, any gun, is all you need, some understand that theres more to it than that, but they really dont want to invest any more than they think necessary into it, and then you have those who understand that if you want the best chance at things, you need to invest time and effort into it if you want to be towards that 95% level.

    Experience and having run the gamut so to speak, also has a big input as to understanding things. When you hear that its not possible to carry pretty much anything you want, year round, and in your normal street clothes, you have to wonder what that persons actual experiences are in doing so, or not, especially when youve done it your whole life, and never really had any issue doing so.

    This isnt about can or cant, its about "want". If you "want" to do something, you pretty much always figure out a way to do it. If you dont want to, then you usually figure out a way to get out of it too. The latter is also usually the easier path too, as the former requires work on your part. I think thats whats going on here much more than the "its not possible" thing.

    My base rule here for me, has always been, choose a gun you are very comfortable and experienced with, shoot well, if not the best with, and shoot it regularly in as realistic practice as you possibly can, and then figure out a way to carry it. Its not hard, you just have to want to do it. Once you figure that out, youll be well on your way towards that 95% goal.
     
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  8. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    But that's what I'm saying, supposedly the stats show that a majority probably in the 90% of situations are stopped simply by pulling a firearm. Out of those requiring actual firing, many smaller calibers break off the contact or situation. It seems that indeed, 95% of situations are able to be handled by having a functioning firearm on you, even if it's let's say .32 ACP for sake of argument. Now, out of actual firefights that would be a different answer I'm sure.

    Going back to my point though, a lot of people don't feel comfortable carrying a larger firearm, or maybe even have health/strength issues with recoil for service calibers in carry firearms. They may not be able to handle a gun battle, and they may not stop the small percentage of truly committed attackers, but they will be ready for most non-military/police situations. That's my point about reasonable preparation. To use a phrase I used to hate, "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
     
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  9. Lnf Crzr

    Lnf Crzr member

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    Well said- I feel some on this forum are a bit… How would you say, “Overly Cautious”
    Be prepared, Yet Don’t get Carried away- Literally and Figuratively speaking.
     
  10. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    Spring-Summer-Fall-Winter my EDC is a S&W Shield 9X19 MM here in NC.
     
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  11. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    Almen to that. My main carry is a Shield 9mm. Just bought a new holster for it today. I flirted with everything from derringers and LCP's to snub nosed revolvers. While I still like the latter, there is something to be said for a good subcompact and the reloads. My LCP was junk. If I find another micro .380 that's actually reliable, I'd carry it which is why I got one in the first place, a sufficiently powered pocket pistol. I'm thinking a M&P Bodyguard in .380 ACP, to continue my M&P carry line.
     
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  12. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    The problem I see with all that is, youre either prepared to the best of your ability (and basic target shooting doesnt qualify here) or youre not prepared. Just having "a" gun isnt being prepared.

    If just having the gun stops it, great, but what happens if they call your bluff and you have to actually use it? Are you actually prepared to do so, and at some competent level? Or are you going with the stats, and not bothering, because youve been told the stars say its not necessary to put in the time and effort to be?

    You should prepare hardest for the unlikely, that youre told will likely never happen, and hope for what so many tell you will be you will get. Not the other way around.

    Nothing is perfect, but dont you think its your responsibility to be working to get as close as you possibly can?
     
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  13. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    What kind of "reality"?


    Is "most", or "many", enough for you?
     
  14. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I carry a KT-P32 when I can't carry a gun.

    This might be due to social circumstances (weddings/funerals/other "hugging" gatherings in a lightweight suit where a larger gun would be detected during hugs and pocket material is too light to allow a heavier weapon without pulling) or place where weapons, while not illegal, would not be allowed if detected.

    I actually was wanded with one of those hand held metal detectors once, and the KT wasn't detected.
     
  15. Alex Clayton

    Alex Clayton Member

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    By "junk" do you mean your LCP did not work? Or you just did not shoot it well? If it did not work that would be the exception not the rule. If one gets out that does not work it can be made to work. If the problem was the trigger? A lot of people have problems with the very small pistol with very long pull. Try one of the LCPII's. They have a MUCH better trigger. Only trade off when I went to mine was now I have to use a pocket holster but it was worth it to me for the trigger.
     
  16. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    If you read my comments, it's clear I'm not saying that having a gun is enough. I think if one is going to carry or even have a home defense firearm, they should get enough training and practice to gain a fair amount of proficiency and safety.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  17. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    I think you may be thinking of old, original LCPs, not new issue. Apparently more have had problems out of the new factory. I tried virtually everything. It actually got worse as it broke in, not the opposite. Maybe it was a lemon. It began having failures (FTE, etc), every mag by 300 rounds in. I gave it until that point. Secondly, it felt like a junk gun. I only bought it to get my feet wet with .380 and it was affordable. I shot it fine as far as accuracy for what it was.

    I'm aware that the LCP II and Max are improvements. I wouldn't mind an LCP II in .22 LR, speaking of mouse calibers. However, I've read those have more problems than the .380 LCP II's. Per Ruger Forum threads.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  18. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    I've already explained the point I was making, saying it's okay for there to be a range of options and preparedness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
  19. Alex Clayton

    Alex Clayton Member

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    Damn, too bad. I had not heard anyone having problems with the LCP's other than that long trigger pull. About a year after I heard they had started offering the LCPII in .22 I told the Wife who originally bought the LCPII .380 I now carry. I warned her not to get the .380 as she is VERY recoil sensitive and it would not work. She tried one in a shop so bought it. Of course when I took her to shoot 1 round out of it was it for her :uhoh: I was carrying a KT .380. I liked the trigger so much on the II I re- homed the KT. Anyway when I told her they had one in .22 she was at the shop next day and ordered one. Its been 100% from day one. First trip out I took around 6 different kinds of ammo and it seemed to like them all. FAR from ideal round but, she loves it and will shoot it so I live with the choice. Only "off thing" about the LCPII in .22 is the mags. They are VERY hard for me to load without the tool they send with the pistol. At the time no one of course had any for sale. So I altered a couple made for the .380 version to work with the .22 mags to make sure we never ended up at the range without the tool. Other than that its been a great little pistol for carry.
     
  20. Rodfac

    Rodfac Member

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    For me, the small .22 and .25 guns are not viable as defense weapons. I believe a .380 is an absolute minimum and and to that it must be in a gun size that's usable under stress. My daily carry for trips to the city is a 9mm P365 Sig...capacity, accuracy, reliability...they're all there...I carry in an OWB, have for 50 years and I dress around the gun. Your mileage may vary, and more power to you in your choice, but IMHO, a peashooter in a pocket is of little practical use if an altercation becomes a shooting. Best regards, Rod
     
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  21. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    You are trying to use logic. LOL
    Unless limited by work clothes, one can easily conceal a Glock 19 size gun; I do everywhere in the FL heat, in my "good area".
    Why? Wouldn't it be convenient to just carry a pocket 380? Yea it would; but, if I had to defend myself (point of carrying gun) I'd rather have a Glock 19.
    What would be preferred (or advantageous) is not the criteria used by some, main criteria is convenience and/or "better than nothing".
    Logic for them = "better than nothing" combine that with budding psychic ability (anticipated threat) and you get something (outlook) thats mostly unmalleable.

    :rofl: I like that. :thumbup:

    I agree, except 380 would be regulated for NPE like above post about 32
    380 because its hot and I don't feel like carrying anything better in my "good area" - No, nope, not me, 9mm minimum.
     
  22. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    We aint supposed to live in overpopulated, asphalt paved, smog covered, crumbling urban dystopias either......but many do. You gotta do what you gotta do to get by, I guess.

    I like some humans. I kinda despise "humanity."

    Given our local climate, practical clothing choices limit one to microguns much of the year. For the 1-2 months of jacket weather we get, I upgun as much as possible......:confused:
     
  23. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    According to many internet warriors, it’s totally unacceptable that you aren’t carrying a 44 magnum. Why won’t you at least carry a Glock 19 please?!
     
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  24. Autodidactic

    Autodidactic Member

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    Thanks, I’d def like a pocket .22 like that. Regarding the LCP I, it seems maybe the older releases were the 100% reliable ones. One thing that’s been discussed elsewhere is that with the new factory, and a large increase in gun sales and production, some QC may be going down. Not just for Ruger. I really wanted my LCP .380 to work. I cleaned it, lubed it, very carefully made sure not to limp wrist it, used 4 different types of ammo. The only ammo it ran well with was Hornady critical defense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
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  25. Lnf Crzr

    Lnf Crzr member

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    A Glock 19 in my opinion with shorts, T shirt is doable. Yet I am very proficient with my 3” J frame 38spl and hot defense ammo. It’s easy to carry and is familiar. Most importantly- Tho I shoot both often, I shoot the JFrame better. I on occasion shoot and carry my j frame airweight. I practice a lot to be sufficient with it. It’s in my opinion , a Comfort carry gun. I’m comfortable enough to shoot it well enough to carry it as protection. However- I’d prefer my Lframe 18oz 44 spl. With 190hr Hps at 1,100 fps. To each his own and no one needs to be told What to carry. That’s a decision just like what shoes to wear.
     
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