Victim Disarmed and Cuffed for his "Safety"

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I wonder if that same cop would do it to a U.S. congressman living in the Las Vegas district, or whether the LVPD has diffent classes of people to deal with....................
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From the looks of it, yes. That is until the exhalted member of congress started throwing his weight around and threatened to have her shadowing Wayne Newton as her principle duty!
 
The militarization of modern police forces blurs the line that differentiates LEO's from soldiers. I think some officers would like to operate like they were in an urban combat zone.


 
If I'm the RP and clearly the good guy, you're gonna get some lead if you try to cuff me. "No thank you" will be my first response prior to that, but if the issue is forced, then....
 
It seems to me that we're heading in a direction that is extremely dangerous, perhaps we've already arrived at the destination, regardless, I'm not really very enthusiastic about modern police technique, it's become just a little to totalitarian to my way of thinking...
I'm a veteran myself, but I'm not willing to cross the line and start treating fellow citizens as though they are enemy combatants, although I'm also not without sympathy for the plight of your average law enforcer, yet I must remind myself that not one American police officer has been drafted into service, it's the work that you've chosen, and that includes the associated risks...
 
I may inconvenience someone for a few minutes, and for that I will take an ass chewing. But I'm going home at the end of my shift.
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I'm curious, from a strategies and tactics perspective, why you think...

Well, first, why you think "inconvenience" is the right word. I mean, if you called me to your home to fix your plumbing, and I saw that you owned guns and handcuffed you and took your guns out to my car while I worked, you would have me arrested...and I'd end up in prison no matter how I protested it was for my safety. If it's a crime when I do it, it is more than an inconvenience when you do it.

But more to the point... why do you think this "inconvenience" actually increases police officer safety? The rant quoted in the original post ended with "don't call the police"...but there are a bunch of people who aren't so self-controlled as that author.

At some point it sucks to wear blue in Lakewood, WA, and your willingness to use handcuffs certainly contributed to that.
 
all that training was there a chance of anyone shooting back? thats the only experience that really counts
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1) I'm not aware of any US police agency that has a training program in which live ammunition is fired at the trainees/recruits. Are you? By your standard, then, all US police training is utterly worthless.

2) Most US police officers will never be shot at in their careers. Likewise, then, their experience is worthless, by your measure.
 
StarDust1 said:
But no problem with the cop becoming a homeowner killer?
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Of course I'd have a problem with a LEO killing a homeowner. But that wasn't the comment. The comment was about shooting a cop because he/she wanted to put a civilian in cuffs until the situation was clarified. That's insane.
 
Not when there's a potential dangerous aggressor still on the loose (as are the facts here), and there's no reason for the detention, disarmament, and rendering me helpless when I'm the RP; no, that's not insane; that's self-defense.

Ed Ames, as usual, speaks wisely and eloquently. Thank you, sir.
 
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow said:
Not when there's a potential dangerous aggressor still on the loose (as are the facts here), and there's no reason for the detention, disarmament, and rendering me helpless when I'm the RP; no, that's not insane; that's self-defense.

Ed Ames, as usual, speaks wisely and eloquently. Thank you, sir.
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At best, a person following this course of action would spend the rest of their life in prison.
 
Are you serious? You'd become a cop killer?


on the internet? or in real life? lots of internet resistance real life? a lot less, once you factor out gta
 
Hypothetical scenario: A cop gets into an argument with another cop in the locker room. A supervisor steps up, immediately asks both officers for their weapons, and then calls nearby officers over to handcuff both of them, for their own safety and that of the other officers, of course. They are not under arrest, but will be released in a short period of time, as soon as the supervisor feels they are calmed down. This takes a little while longer, of course, because they both now feel "violated" by their employer. Do we see now why handcuffing the complainant (in the original post) has its negative side? Do we want to be restrained in all situations just because someone THINKS we might act out, or be dangerous?
 
BCC said:
At best, a person following this course of action would spend the rest of their life in prison.
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Depending on the situation that life could be measured in seconds, if you comply, or tens of seconds if you don't; at the time that the situation occurred in the report this was a possible outcome. Which is preferable risking court and jail, or death? Given that death is terminal, and doesn't leave many options I might also take court and jail.

Anyway more reasonably, I really cannot fathom the logic. The police rely on the people for information to help catch criminals which is their job. Alienating the public will prevent them from performing their job, so it's self defeating.

Everything has an element of risk associated with it, and police work is no different. You minimize the risk, without alienating the public, by say putting cuffs on and disarming the RP. If you can't handle the risk and behave rationally then you shouldn't be doing the job. Also as Ed mentioned, having a badge does not necessarily give you the right to do something that someone without a badge would be prosecuted for.

However in this particular officers instance, I would be very concerned with their response should the come across someone who does not comply. Given the demands that she made, would she have shot the RP if he had refused to relinquish his gun and allow himself to he cuffed? It's not known but I'd be really concerned based on this behavior.

As far as the LEO's complaining about regular people becoming a-holes, some have a predisposition, others don't. Some just become instant a-holes when some arrogant sumbitch with a uniform tells them to do something which infringes their legal rights (I have been known to be in this group from time to time). There's always two sides to every story, and maybe if you're finding a lot of people becoming less than polite, it might be an interesting exercise to review your behavior towards them to see whether you provoked that response before assuming that everyone else is at fault.
 
I may inconvenience someone for a few minutes, and for that I will take an ass chewing. But I'm going home at the end of my shift.
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That and you would be be a world-class jerk. Handcuffing that man before the scene was secure was reckless at best. I would comply with the officer since I would not have a choice, but you bet there would be a lawsuit.
 
BlayGlock said:
That and you would be be a world-class jerk. Handcuffing that man before the scene was secure was reckless at best. I would comply with the officer since I would not have a choice, but you bet there would be a lawsuit.
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And that sir, would be a good way to handle the situation, if so inclined. I'd probably forego the lawsuit, but would certainly press the matter with senior police management if, upon calm reflection, I still felt I had been inappropriately endangered.
 
BCC said:
Of course I'd have a problem with a LEO killing a homeowner. But that wasn't the comment. The comment was about shooting a cop because he/she wanted to put a civilian in cuffs until the situation was clarified. That's insane.
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I don't wish to see anyone shot, yet to my mind, the rights & liberties of the homeowner trump those of the LEO & the LEA, slapping them into restraints while they/he/she "sort it out," as though it's business as usual, is crossing the line from law enforcer to law giver!
I've long been uncomfortable with the para-militarization of civilian LEA, everytime I hear of such an incident it solidly reaffirms the "feeling of rightness" in my conclusions...
Ultimately, it's my firm belief that such gross abuse of authority results in incrementally worse examples of abuse camoflaged as "necessary for everyones safety," eventually leading to the mindset that it's an entitlement, which is an awfully sticky proposition in our supposedly free society!
 
And that sir, would be a good way to handle the situation, if so inclined
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Yes, only because the other choices would probably involve something like resisting arrest. Honestly, If I was not harmed there would not be a lawsuit either, but I would demand disciplinary action.

I've long been uncomfortable with the para-militarization of civilian LEA
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You and me both. Ultimatley, Ben Franklin said it best. He who gives up a little freedom for a little security deserves neither and will loose both.

The people on this board defending the officer have lost thier cotten-pickin minds.

I'm also not without sympathy for the plight of your average law enforcer, yet I must remind myself that not one American police officer has been drafted into service, it's the work that you've chosen, and that includes the associated risks...
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Im not either, I understand that they have a difficult and often thankless job. But that does not justify you using the authority that you have been entrusted with to put my life in danger so that you do not feel "uncomfortable."
 
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