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Victorinox and Opinel paring knives...

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by boki_zca, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    I have couple Victorinox and Opinel paring knives, 3 and 4 inches in length.These are inexpensive and of very good quality,amazing for money.They are my most used knives,more than any of the 100+ folders and tacticals I have,and they cut better and are easier to sharpen too.These would be good for self defense and tactical purposes too.All experiences and comments are welcome!Ps.in my book thin blades rule.
     
  2. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    I've the Opinel paring knife. I agree thin edges are great, particularly in carbon steel which has the toughness to not chip out or to lose a tip. But I reach for the reprofiled Mora #1, more often, in the kitchen. It has essentially the same edge with more handle. And less flex in the blade, which makes it easier to sharpen, if nothing else. You don't need a bendy thin spine to have a thin edge profile. They both have a great patina and require no extra care. I've even run them through the dishwasher.

    If you like thin profiles, you might like to carry an Opi #8 over a "tactical" folder. These knives are basically what a good kitchen knife should be... super thin edge profile. Thin convex grind, almost a full flat, with just a small secondary bevel.

    I think it's a little crazy to push a Opi paring knife for general or even tactical use, though. Quite a tiny handle and quite a bendy thin blade.

    That all said, all my kitchen knives have a thin profile and edge, thanks to the belt sander. Well, all but the boning knives. My inexpensive stainless knives have some chips, though. They did not take that edge, easily.

    Get you a nice set of stones, and you can easily get a thin profile on all your middlin carbide knives. The higher carbide steels, you can just forget it, unless you get a diamond file or a belt sander. Aside from plain carbon steel, I find 8Cr13 and AUS8 are also good for a thin edge. They are easy to grind and resharpen a large surface area bevel and they don't chip, easy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  3. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    I have reground Mora Companion,full convex grind,cuts very well.Thin victorinox and Opinel paring knives still cut better because of thin stock.My tactical uses involve mostly kitchen work,and some stuff around the house.As I dont baton with knives,and just cut with them ,I never needed thick blades.I have belt sander ,and few diamond and water stones,but do almost everything on belt sander and generally regrind fully or reprofile most knives I buy from factory.(have them over 100,and find most of them almost useless,at the end just find myself using victorinox and opinel paring knives).
     
  4. cdk8

    cdk8 Member

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    I am quite fond of the Opinels because I find they are cheap, tough, and perform well. Also, at the advice of other Members, I use them with my EdgePro to learn new sharpening techniques, avoiding removing unnecessary metal from other knives that cost much more (for example, learning to set a double bevel.) They've also influenced my preference for extremely thin kitchen knives made from carbon steels with paper thin edges, both in regards to paring knives and chef knives. With an EDC folder, they've led me to favor a very thin edge (recently from S90V, Super Blue, and M390 steel as I find they can hold an almost stupidly thin edge and still resist rolling.)

    Without Opinel carbon, I probably would not have tried out 52100, White, Super Blue, or rediscovered a love for the 10xx series, because of that initial reluctance that can come with carbon steels regarding corrosion. However, Opinels gave me the chance to learn about forcing patinas, and I quickly discovered that the combination of good edge holding, chip resistance, and the super ease of sharpening justified the extra attention to upkeep. To this day, I'll still use an Opinel as a paring knife and often try out something new with it before doing it to one of my pricier paring knives.

    Now if only someone made inexpensive S90V folders that I could use in the same way...
     
  5. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    S90V and cheap don't go together, lol.

    Rolling is problem with carbon steels, yeah. You learn what you can cut all day with little wear. And when to keep the sharpening stone at hand. As long as I have a smooth rock handy, I don't mind temporarily messing up a carbon steel edge.

    Well, you can always go thinner on the Mora. It might be 4x as thick. But the blade is also maybe 3 times as broad, edge to spine. Just keep on thinning it until it is more like a full flat than a full convex. Those salamis and cheeses won't know what hit 'em. :) I have 4 or 5 Mora's, and only one has the original Scandi grind.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  6. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    boki_zca,

    What training or practice do you have with SD knives?

    Why do you think these would be good for SD?

    Thanks
     
  7. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    Well, I do not think they would be best choices for sd purposes,but could be used if needed, and their primary purpose is utility.Other factor is price,easy to replace if lost or stolen.I have some limited training in escrima,but am not an expert,and use my knives mostly for utility purposes.I think something along the lines od Victorinox paring knife,just little thicker and wider would be perfect small self defense carry knife! This is just my opinion,and I love thin knives !In my experience thinner knives cut and also stab better(too thin is not good either).One day ill get someone to make me a custom knife along lines of victorinox paring knife,just somewhat thicker and wider,and maybe with tool steel like d2.
     
  8. MikeJackmin

    MikeJackmin Member

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    I have a couple of each. The victorinox serrated 'steak knife' is probably the most used knife in my kitchen:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X3H6AQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    The little Opinel paring knives are very nice (the carbon version is noticeably better). Another happy discovery was this little guy, $10 delivered:

    https://www.rmurphyknives.com/store/square-point-shoe-knife-3-inch-7-6-cm-blade-pn-sq3-details.html

    They have a nice variety to choose from, decent steel, well made for the price point:

    https://www.rmurphyknives.com/store/leather-knives.html

    I prefer the Murphy to the Opinels because the handle is a bit more substantial.
     
  9. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    ps.Thums up for Mora knives,some of the best choices for self defense and utility ,for price.Modified or out of box they cut well ,are very strong and inexpensive,for any task needed.With self defense in mind theyre probably better choice than above stated paring knives as theyre stronger but still razor sharp.
     
  10. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    Opinel paring knives in Inox 12c27 are excellent too,steel is easy to sharpen ,doesnt rust and holds edge well!I like this steel better than carbon.Mora companion is very good and strong knife that is razor sharp out of factory.That is one of best tactical knives ,period.Mora makes a lot of different models of different sizes and all of them cut well too and are made of good steel.Mora,Victorinox and Opinel in my opinion are some of the best if not best inexpensive tactical and utility knives on market.
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    The "thicker" part was my issue. As someone who has studied escrima a bit I expect you would consider these a bit too thin and flexible for the speed used in knives for SD as well as fragility in thrusts. While any tool is better than none, not every knife in the kitchen would serve in a defensive role as well as others. While "slicey", these thin, flexible, light blade knives without any sort of guard ot choil would be near the last of the list for what most folds have in a knife block since they would bend or break before something just a bit stronger in construction.

    OTOH, the use of a paring knife isn't bad as an inexpensive defensive knife if a full height grind (perhaps "apple seed" on a slack belt) is put on and Old Hickory and the addition of some security against slipping up on the edge is added for those of us not at Jason Bourne's skill level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  12. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    Hso,Mora Companion is near perfect tactical knife,very strong and razor sharp and inexpensive.I like Victorinox better because of the utility side and very thin blade.No knife is perfect,but these knives offer very good bang for buck.
     
  13. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    I hear you should expect a lot of blood in a knife fight. I suppose a finger guard would be preferred. But best SD knife for me, IMO, is knife that is at least 6" longer than the other guy's. Just gotta figure out how to fit it in my pocket. :)
     
  14. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    If you need something for a knife fight get one of Tojiro japanese kitchen knives ,theres integral guard LOL.I ordered one utility-paring knife from them,in vg10, 120mm long,for$40.Will be interesting to see the edge holding of this one compared to my spydercos in vg10, and some other knives from major companies.
     
  15. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    They're designed for a more delicate work, which they excel at and as paring knives they perform very well.

    As self defense knives they're grossly inadequate and only suitable if they're what your hand falls to when there's no time or nothing else available. Having spent decades training with and working with knives used for self defense my experience and research tells me that they lack the physical properties needed for good defensive knives. They're too thin resulting in a blade that would collapse or snap on the thrust if they hit a hard object. They're also too thin for an extended engagement meaning the blade would deflect or twist and take a set on hitting bone on a hack/slash rendering them less effective on followup. The handles aren't designed for a thrust or even a hard slash being too thin and fine and narrow with nothing in the way of a guard. Dedicated defensive or offensive knives over the hundreds of years when knives were important for defense don't have their characteristics. There's nothing supporting the position that they're good for the purpose.

    I'm a great fan of Mora's, but they're nothing near a "perfect tactical knife" even though they're nearly a perfect bushcraft knife. "Tactical" includes fighting along with utility so in that sense their first shortcoming as a "tactical" knife is that they're too short to be ideal in a fight. Any knife with a blade of 4" is not ideal in a fighting knife since penetrating into the body isn't ideal with a blade that short. 5 inches of blade is minimally appropriate. They also lack the weight for impacts in hacking as well as length and have grips too short for trapping or passing (although most knives do also). The blades are not curved for optimum draw cut/slashing. While they CAN be used defensively, you have to adapt to their shortcomings where a truly ideal tactical knife doesn't require you to adapt to this bloody application.

    I appreciate your thoughts on this topic, but can not agree with them and can't ignore them since promoting a cheap, thin, flexible paring knife for self defense in the face of far superior nearly equal price knives isn't realistic. Please look at weapons through the ages and abandon this idea. In my decades training in FMA, western martial sword, Chinese knife and sword, even modern western "prison" knife techniques studying use of blades offensively and defensively no knives like these were preferable to the scores of weapons meant for the purpose.

    I don't know how much training you've had or study you've applied, but it isn't enough if these are your recommendations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  16. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    Hso,youre right, for purely fighting knife,I would chose a bowie or dagger blade, at least 7 inches long.I am talking about knives that are EDC use knives,that could be used for defense if needed.I know they are not perfect fighting knives,or fighting knives at all.Something little thicker is better for defensive purposes,so it doesnt break while using it.The above mentioned knives are in my opinion still better than a lot of tactical knives on market nowadays, from utility, price and defensive aspect too.
     
  17. TomADC

    TomADC Member

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    My oldest grandson is a meat cutter he swears by the Victorinox knives. I have a few here at the house.
     
  18. boki_zca

    boki_zca Member

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    I used to work as butcher for couple years too.We used mostly F.dick and Swibo knives.Old F.Dick knives with wooden handles are very good too,better than new ones with blue plastic handles,and better than Swibos.Victorinox kitchen-butcher knives are of very good quality, I have Victorinox boning knife and 5inch mini chef knives too.They hold good edge for decent amount of time and are easy to sharpen.
     

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