dbarale
Member
Mossy, does it have a V prefix serial on both the butt and the cylinder, does it have a lanyard loop and does it say ".38 S&W SPL CTG" on the right side of the barrel?
Victory revolver cylinder trouble.
- Thread starter Ratzinger_p38
- Start date
- Status
mossy141701
Member
dbaraqle , yes to all those questions. The reason I asked is because I have seen a few of those on different gun auction sights for as much as $650.00 and the pictures they show were in no better condition than mine also some of them didn't have military markings either. I have researched it a little and it seems to either be one used for civil defense or maybe a version sold to civilians after the war. I looked up the serial number and it was made in I believe 1943. I am new to this sight and there seems to be a wealth of knowledge here so I thought I would ask.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
PzGren, im confused. Another poster tells me the opposite. Like I said, only one 'ring' and not like the one pictured. Also, as I said, there is no serial on the barrel at all.
Argh too many experts
Argh too many experts
Smith & Wesson's contracts with the government specified that the government would not sell surplus military "V" model revolvers to the public after the war, but this didn't cover guns that ended up with domestic police departments and defense plants, or were shipped overseas. Consequently there are a fair number around.
Supposedly all of the V-model frames were stamped on the topstrap, "United States Property," or "U.S. Property." But the stamping was sometimes light, and could be polished out during refinishing.
But the O.S.S. got some that weren't so marked, and there could have been others.
Jim Supica, a noted S&W authority and member of The High Road, runs an auctuion at: (www.armsbid.com). Also see: (www.armchairgunshow.com).
A number of Victory Models in both .38 Special (American) and .38-200 (British) have been sold at auction on that site, and past results are posted. You may find that helpful to determine a realistic value.
Supposedly all of the V-model frames were stamped on the topstrap, "United States Property," or "U.S. Property." But the stamping was sometimes light, and could be polished out during refinishing.
But the O.S.S. got some that weren't so marked, and there could have been others.
Jim Supica, a noted S&W authority and member of The High Road, runs an auctuion at: (www.armsbid.com). Also see: (www.armchairgunshow.com).
A number of Victory Models in both .38 Special (American) and .38-200 (British) have been sold at auction on that site, and past results are posted. You may find that helpful to determine a realistic value.
dbarale
Member
Mossy, it sounds like you do, indeed, have a .38spl victory. I would recommend that you get a letter form S&W that will provide some detail regarding the history of the gun. Also you really should register at the S&W forum http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/ and ask the same question there. Your gun is probably quite valuable but my best guess would still be a guess, these folks can help you.
Ratzinger, I am not an expert, by far.
I have two possible explanations for your gun. Neither sounds plausible:
A .38S&W Victory that was reamed for .38spl and has really dirty chambers.
A .38spl Victory that was re-barreled and has really loose chambers that will almost accept a .38S&W round.
Again, a letter form S&W will give you the original caliber and the real experts at the S&W forum can probably give you some more accurate information.
Ratzinger, I am not an expert, by far.
I have two possible explanations for your gun. Neither sounds plausible:
A .38S&W Victory that was reamed for .38spl and has really dirty chambers.
A .38spl Victory that was re-barreled and has really loose chambers that will almost accept a .38S&W round.
Again, a letter form S&W will give you the original caliber and the real experts at the S&W forum can probably give you some more accurate information.
mossy141701
Member
Thanks for the advice guys, I had intended to have it lettered and I really appreciate the help. The value is not the reason I bought it , I love guns connected with history, especially WWII.
Mossy,
check for the small flaming bomb on the bottom of the frame strap, it is a round imprint just about 1/8th of an inch big, that's all mine had and it was very shallow. One was also marked DOPC, supposedly Dept. of Public Corrections.
Ratzinger,
use your own judgement, if there is only one ring, then this is the normal chamber as it was cut at the factory. Since it accepts .38 Special, it was cut to .38 Special, right? The cylinder markings match the frame, so it is the original cylinder, correct?
If the barrel is not serial numbered but marked .38 S&W it most likely is one of the barrels that were in the past sold by Numrich, Sarco, etc. for around $10 and installed on the gun afterwards.
check for the small flaming bomb on the bottom of the frame strap, it is a round imprint just about 1/8th of an inch big, that's all mine had and it was very shallow. One was also marked DOPC, supposedly Dept. of Public Corrections.
Ratzinger,
use your own judgement
, if there is only one ring, then this is the normal chamber as it was cut at the factory. Since it accepts .38 Special, it was cut to .38 Special, right? The cylinder markings match the frame, so it is the original cylinder, correct?If the barrel is not serial numbered but marked .38 S&W it most likely is one of the barrels that were in the past sold by Numrich, Sarco, etc. for around $10 and installed on the gun afterwards.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
That's what I am concluding PzG...now if I can find a source for the .38 Special barrels. (Anyone know? GunBroker and elsewhere are bingo on the .38 special version)
There is no reason to change the barrel. The difference in bore diameter is .0002" - possible less, depending on tolerances. Unless you plan to change both the barrel and cylinder (very expensive!) I'd leave things as they are.
That said, contemporary World War Two barrels (.38 Special and .38 S&W) are available from www.e-gunparts.com
That said, contemporary World War Two barrels (.38 Special and .38 S&W) are available from www.e-gunparts.com
mossy141701
Member
PzGren mine does have the bomb on the bottom of the strap just before the V in the serial number, I have owned the revolver for three or four years and had never noticied it until you told me to look for it and it is a good stamp, plain as day! Thanks for the tip.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Why would I have to change cylinders? This one appears unmodified. Not to mention whoever put on this barrel put it on a little tight, and the sighting is off. Oddly on that site you linked me, the only 4' barrel is noted as being British...confusing.
I don't know that you would have to change the cylinder. But that's the problem because I have no way of knowing for sure if the present cylinder is good to go or not. If it unquestionably O.K. then it shouldn't be changed, but by the same token, it isn't necessary to change the barrel, although it might be desireable.
Understand that changing barrels isn't a case of clamping the barrel in a vise, putting a hammer handle through the frame's cylinder window, and giving the frame a twist. This is an excellent way to warp the frame, and if you don't the new barrel is unlikely to just screw in and have the front sight come up at 12:00, and have a correct cylinder/barrel gap at the other end.
Also the barrel you have may have the front sight turned a hair to correct a windage error. Before making any judgment you should target the gun and see where it shoots relative to the point-of-aim.
I haven't checked lately, but they did have some .38-200 barrels in the 5" length. That said, while the 5" length was the standard one, during the war S&W made the .38-200 with barrel lengths of 4, 5 and 6 inches. With a war on they didn't hesitate to use anything they had that might work, or could be made to work. After the war, Numrich (The Gunparts Co.) bought literally tons of surplus parts from both the U.S. government and the S&W company.
Understand that changing barrels isn't a case of clamping the barrel in a vise, putting a hammer handle through the frame's cylinder window, and giving the frame a twist. This is an excellent way to warp the frame, and if you don't the new barrel is unlikely to just screw in and have the front sight come up at 12:00, and have a correct cylinder/barrel gap at the other end.
Also the barrel you have may have the front sight turned a hair to correct a windage error. Before making any judgment you should target the gun and see where it shoots relative to the point-of-aim.
I haven't checked lately, but they did have some .38-200 barrels in the 5" length. That said, while the 5" length was the standard one, during the war S&W made the .38-200 with barrel lengths of 4, 5 and 6 inches. With a war on they didn't hesitate to use anything they had that might work, or could be made to work. After the war, Numrich (The Gunparts Co.) bought literally tons of surplus parts from both the U.S. government and the S&W company.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
I intend to check with S&W themselves first to find out which barrel it was made with, so I will not do anything rash first.
Although you are correct, removal of the barrel will be a problem.
Although you are correct, removal of the barrel will be a problem.
Ratzinger,
those pinned in barrels do not have the high torque crush fit of the later production guns. They can be removed quite easily, I rebarreled a few S&W revolvers.
Getting the barrel out is fairly easy, fitting a new barrel might not be so easy, the barrel shoulder might need to be turned but more likely the forcing cone will need to be shortened. The shoulder should be fitted so that the barrel can be handscrewed in to about 6 to 8 minutes before 12 o'clock, if my memory does not betray me, and then screwed in with some more force. It is important that you do not turn it too far, turning is back can lead to a barrel that will loosen up.
But I would really first see how the gun patterns with 158gr lead bullets ( swaged bullets should give a better seal ) before I would even think about changing the barrel. If the POI is not far off, I would take Old Fuff's advise and turn the barrel slightly - with the pin removed.
If you are mechanically inclined. and get the necessary information and some little hints, you should be able to do it yourself.
those pinned in barrels do not have the high torque crush fit of the later production guns. They can be removed quite easily, I rebarreled a few S&W revolvers.
Getting the barrel out is fairly easy, fitting a new barrel might not be so easy, the barrel shoulder might need to be turned but more likely the forcing cone will need to be shortened. The shoulder should be fitted so that the barrel can be handscrewed in to about 6 to 8 minutes before 12 o'clock, if my memory does not betray me, and then screwed in with some more force. It is important that you do not turn it too far, turning is back can lead to a barrel that will loosen up.
But I would really first see how the gun patterns with 158gr lead bullets ( swaged bullets should give a better seal ) before I would even think about changing the barrel. If the POI is not far off, I would take Old Fuff's advise and turn the barrel slightly - with the pin removed.
If you are mechanically inclined. and get the necessary information and some little hints, you should be able to do it yourself.
You may have been lucky. I've seen some frames that were bent, not always by much - but enough to ruin the gun. When a professional does the job, both the barrel and frame are supported in special blocks that support the thinner part of the frame, and the contour of the barrel.
Always remember, this is a job where if everything is done right you'll be O.K., but if it's done wrong the result can be a ruined frame.
I have done a few barrels and always made my own tools to change them. A barrel block is quickly made out of wood and I have some pretty elaborate wrenches that can handle pretty much any job up to an old Mauser.
That said, all laws of physics are applicable and with a good leverage in the wrong spot, a gun can be ruined by a thoughtless hobby gun smith as quickly as by a sloppy reloader
That said, all laws of physics are applicable and with a good leverage in the wrong spot, a gun can be ruined by a thoughtless hobby gun smith as quickly as by a sloppy reloader
- Status
