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Violent Neighbor - No Police Protection - What do I do?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by will500, Aug 13, 2008.

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  1. will500

    will500 Member

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    Hello all, this is my first time on this forum. I do not own a gun, yet. Excuse me if I rant a bit...

    I am about to become a first time gun owner, though I have fired many guns of various types and understand how to fire one properly.

    I live in a small apartment complex. Recently we have had new down stairs neighbors move in, young "jock" party types. We didn't mind the noise at first but the pot smoke seeping into our apartment was too much.

    I once heard the violent one that lives there, what sounded like beating a woman or something, and had to call the police. I couldn't let my wife leave as the guy had lost control slamming around the house.

    The cops did nothing... "keep it down"...

    On the 4th of July, at mid-night, 11:50pm or so, he decided (the violent one) that it would be a good idea to blast music.

    I pounded on the floor. (Apartment talk for "keep it down")

    He cranked it up louder. I went down there to ask what the hell was his problem.

    The guy flipped out completely, like roid rage style. He was talking about how if I ever called the cops again he would kick my ass (I guess because we called the cops when he may have been beating a woman) and blah blah. He then went on ranting and calling names and all of that. I closed and locked the door as the guy was out of his mind. He then started banging on the door and trying to open the handle to get inside... and do something violent I am sure.

    I... lied... to him and told him I had a gun pointed at the door, to back away and the cops have been called.

    He continued to scream and rant like a mad man and then ran off in his car before the cops came. Funny how three cops come when they know a gun is involved but once they realize no one is hurt they have zero care. They only asked, "How tall was he?" and left.

    I called the management, they said they would do something. The other neighbors were gone for the weekend, unfortunately there were no witnesses.

    Anyway, three weeks past. Again, loud music shaking my place, I pound, guy FREAKS OUT!!! He pounds on our door with his fists and body, as if trying to break it open, rings the door bell a ton and intimidates us.

    There is a little old lady that is in the apartment next to them, she has a home alarm system. He was screaming and pounding so hard that it set off her alarm, scaring that lady from the alarm and banging and scared other neighbors near by as well.

    He then went inside and blasted his music again for a while, then left.

    I called the management, they said they never did anything about the 4th of July indecent, but promised they would this time. Pft.

    I called the police they said all they could do is maybe give them a small noise fine, if I go before a judge.

    No one will help. He is a violent person and it has caused us to live in fear and stress. I have to watch when my wife leaves in case he flips, for instance.


    I will be buying a gun to protect ourselves while living here.


    What kind of handgun is not HUGE but not tiny, something that says "I'm not ****ing around." when it's being pointed at someone. A gun that is... cheaper.. not so large it's a burden to carry/hold up but not something so small that it's more "cute" than "oh ****!", inducing. If you get my meaning.


    What are my rights here? I live in Pennsylvania.


    It is sad that it has come to this as this is a nice neighborhood, other than these guys.

    I also plan on printing up notices to tape on everyone's door giving them a quick overview about the cops, the drugs and the violence. That may help the management do something...

    The hand gun suggestions and any other non-violent suggestions to this situation are welcome.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2008
  2. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    I am sorry your dealing with this.

    I will say one thing, if you ever to the point where you pull out a gun, be aware that you may need to USE it, and if your unwilling to use it, then you need to look at other methods.

    If it is the case that you really think that it the point where your worried about your life, then you came to the right place.
     
  3. will500

    will500 Member

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    Thanks, I'd hate to kill some guy, but if he comes at me and my wife, the cops said that is fair game...

    We have a can of mace.. I was told never to test it.. I have no clue how good mace is or if it even works. There is no feeling of security with this can of mace.
     
  4. thebaldguy

    thebaldguy Member

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    Go to the landlord and complain about the tenant's actions. It may be time to move; you can talk to your landlord about breaking your lease due to another resident's aggressive behavior. Let them know that you feel the building is too dangerous.
     
  5. Geno

    Geno Member

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    will500:

    After reading your post, I am uncertain if you are a troll, or just uninformed about firearms laws. It seems to me that little by little you too are escalating the negative. Why pound the floor?! Why go down and ask him what the "hell" is problem is?! That's called escalating the trouble. Then, you threatened that you had a firearm pointed at him trhough a door?! In my humble opinion, perhaps you should not buy a firearm.

    Doc2005
     
  6. tntwatt

    tntwatt Member

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    start here http://www.pafoa.org/ your states firearms owner association. It'll be a start to learning your gun laws and rights.
     
  7. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    Pester the cops and landlord every time this guy does something. Don't confront the guy.

    The landlord will either kick him out or let you break the lease and leave.
     
  8. pappy

    pappy Member

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    I might be inclined to talk to the other tennants and get written complaints from everyone you can. This might provide the landlord with enough pressure to do something. Definatley document everything, the more documentation you have, the better your defense will be should things escalate and you end up shooting the guy.
     
  9. Wang

    Wang Member

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    The rack of a pump shotgun is a real attention getter. I don't think anyone wants to be starring down the barrel of a 12 ga. Do they have the Castle Doctrine in Pennsylvania?
     
  10. csmkersh

    csmkersh Member

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    1. Stop confronting the guy.
    2. File a noise complaint with the police every time he cranks the music up.
    3. Go down and talk to some one in the DA's office and see what can be done about the noise and threats. You might mention you think he's dealing.
    4. Move.


     
  11. Rmart30

    Rmart30 Member

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    agreed ....... if you have a camcorder you can record the loud music or his actions also to show the landlord or police.
     
  12. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO Member

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    Pick a spot where the breeze is coming from the side (AND you will not affect others) and give a short blast at a tree or shrub. Then walk close to it. DO NOT touch it or you will wish you had not done that.

    NO it does not render the remaining fluid unusable. Depending on the size of the spray can, you can get from a single five second blast to several five second blasts (depends on the size you purchased). You also want to know how it works (spray or stream, etc.). The time to find that out is NOT when you need it.

    As good as a gun for self defense? Sure is a LOT better than nothing. If you get the good ones, the only person it will not stop is someone fully strung out on PCP. The main advantage is the you are not going to face murder charges or assault with a deadly weapon.

    On a side note, there were many many other ways to handle the situation. Your direct confrontation has set the tone for further confrontations.

    +1!
     
  13. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    Will, I will just go over a few things. I grew up in one of the most violent cities in the United States, and I know a number of people who are pushing up flowers when they shouldn't. You do need to stand up for yourself, but learn not to be so confrontational.

    First, you have confronted him a number of times, which is not a good thing, and makes be very hesident to recommend a gun as it not used for intimidation and it needs to be used as a last resort, not "I am going to flash this gun so he turns down his music" , instead it is "He going to bust down my door and I have to protect my family."

    First of all, stop confronting the guy.
    2nd of all, report him for dealing, if anything else, that will get the police to look at him closer.
    3rd, if he is truly this bad, other tenants will have the same compliant, and go as a group to your landlord.
    4th - learn what is is to be justified to show a weapon, as I am worried that from what i have heard, that you will get arrested for threatening him with a gun if you buy one.

    I am worried your buying a gun as a shortcut on a situation, and that will only lead to BAD things, such as you going to jail for years.
     
  14. Intrepid Dad

    Intrepid Dad Member

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    The Bald Guy said:

    I agree with this advice. If your landlord says you can't get out of the lease I would probably pay an attorney to review the contract and see if there is any legal means to break the lease. Either this guy needs to be tossed out or it's time for you and your wife to move.
     
  15. KelVarnson

    KelVarnson Member

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    1.) If he was really going to kick your a$$, he would have by now.

    2.) Don't print up the flyers, they will only antagonize him, and I am sure the other neighbors are already aware of him.

    3.) Every time he bothers you, day or night, call the property OWNER, not the manager. I have apartments on three sides of me, trust me, this works, and works fast. Absentee owners will do whatever is necessary to avoid being awakened at all hours of the night. They are ususally in it for the money, and want it to be as "hands off" as possible. Once it becomes "hands on", they will react quickly. The property owner's name should be available as public record, likely from the County that you are in.

    4.) In the mean time, try to stay calm and don't deliberately antagonize the guy. Don't escalate. Live your life as best you can and try not to overreact to his childish outbursts.

    5.) I understand the feeling of needing a firearm, I bought my first shotgun in response to a similar problem. If you go this route, learn everything you can about using it, and the consequences of using it. Lurking at this site is one (and only one) good way to do this.
     
  16. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    calling the owner is the best idea, not the manager, find the owner though the local tax office. they know who owns the building :)
     
  17. boredelmo

    boredelmo member

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    That's not the general way I would be thinking. A gun CAN be used as a deterrent, but you dont want to be that guy waiving a guy around being a tough guy do you? Sounds like you might be getting into his area and fighting his fight.

    Stick to the high road right? I'm not saying you shouldn't have a gun, because honestly this guy does sound like he'd do something stupid. But with that attitude? Showing who has the bigger balls? Have a gun if it comes down to it, but not to scare him.

    A general ideology says that you shouldn't present a gun unless you plan to shoot him. By no way do i mean just shoot him. quite the opposite.

    If he isnt getting evicted, move. If youre intent on staying, reinforce the door + alarm. If your plan is to show him youve got a big scary gun the next time he comes pounding on your door, then you have to adjust your mentality.

    Seek all peacable means to end of conflict first. If you have a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. Make sure your gun isn't a hammer ya know?

    P.S. Start a good paper trail at the PD. Not to complain ABOUT him, but to note that fact that you're AFRAID of him. To be honest, I'd go over in the PM with a 6 pack as a peace offering and try to come to a compromise, but thats just me, I'm pretty social like that ;).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2008
  18. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    One of you have to go. If the owner/management of the building won't do anything to resolve the situation, it's time to start packing.
     
  19. knicks118

    knicks118 Member

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    First of all, you don't need a gun in this case and you'd be digging your own grave legally.

    What I would do it beat this guy down hard and shut him up. But it seems you are intimidated by him.

    The smart thing to do is keep calling management and the police. Management probably won't do anything unless more people complain as well. The police is get tired of coming to the apartment and just tell the guy to ****.
     
  20. will500

    will500 Member

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    The managers are the property owners, I have complained, each time so have other neighbors. They claim they'll do something. They don't.

    I wouldn't "flash a gun to keep the noise down", that is silly. This guy has tried to get inside our place. I would only bring out the gun when this guys starts trying to get in again. Though I suppose I can not mention it legally, thanks for that advice.

    I forgot to mention, each time the cops would leave, the guy would scream at our door and up at the ceiling to intimidate us.

    I do not have the thousands it would take to move.

    No I don't want to be that guy waving a gun. I'm just not sure what to do. Though the advice on here is good, thank you so far.

    Good point. I'm not the bully type but I see what you mean there.
     
  21. CountGlockula

    CountGlockula Member

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    You have every right to take action and by protecting yourself. Most IMPORTANTLY, make sure you are educated on PA self defense gun laws.

    I'd recommend taking a CCW course and purchasing a Glock. But know that a gun should be your VERY last resort in stopping a threat of imminent danger.

    ...or picking up a nice Remington 870 should do it too.
     
  22. Treo

    Treo member

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    First let me say welcome to THR.

    Now let's talk about your OP.

    First let me be as clear as I can possibly be Firearms are never to be used for intimidation EVER if you don't truly feel that your life is in danger you have no business using a gun.

    Second; Stop interacting W/ the guy, you already know that doesn't work . All you are doing is escalating the situation. If you antagonize the guy until he beats down your door & then shoot him it isn't going to be a justified shooting.

    Final point go to your land lord every time the guy steps out of line. Document every instance, when you have enough instances to establish a pattern tell your land lord you're moving regardless of the lease.

    I can't imagine a landlord allowing a single tenant to distrupt the premises to that extent W/out taking action.
     
  23. no_problem

    no_problem Member

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    Welcome.

    Sorry to hear about your trouble. You ought to protect your family. The police cannot protect you. They don't get involved until AFTER something has happened. They come in and determine if it's really a crime. Would you like to wait until AFTER something has happened? By then it is too late. It is time to move.

    Document all of your calls to the police
    Document all of your conversations with the landlord
    document all of the conversations with the guy, document all of the neighbor's comments

    Get a restraining order

    Time to move

    Avoid confrontation if at all possible, back down whenever you can. Leave bravado for the movies, the cemetery is filled with heroes.

    ...but get a gun if you run into a situation that you can't talk your way out of. Never brandish it, never, ever threaten anyone with it. But if he threatens your family, if he threatens you, if he lays a hand on your family or you, then pull the trigger and pray.

    A pump action shotgun is a good firearm. Something like a Remington 870.
     
  24. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    I will second that.

    Also look at a mossberg 500 type shotgun, which can be had for not that much, a Shotgun, not a handgun, is the best home defense gun that one can have. Go to your local gunstore and see what they have in shotguns. Don't use it for intimindation, don't even talk to him. Just call the police when you smell pot or he noisy, and call the landlord (not the manager)

    stay INDOORS when this happens, not even looking outside to see what happens.

    And only use it if he breaks into your house, then, AND ONLY THEN, use the shotgun.
     
  25. Newton

    Newton Member

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    You really don't want to shoot someone who is unarmed, alone, and with whom you now have a documented history of "problems".

    The solution is annoying, but effective - you should move to another apartment well away from him in the same complex, or move to another complex entirely.

    He won't change his behavior, so you have to change yours.
     
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