Violent Neighbor - No Police Protection - What do I do?

[Cosmoline]

You don't need to video yourself mailing the letter. I don't know where you got that idea. But I do think you should video the music rattling the unit and ideally have the thing running if he tries to bash your door down again. Maybe the landlord will boot him. I would not threaten to sue the landlord over the violence. Don't threaten to sue people unless you really intend to. And don't threaten to sue people if you want them to act on your side and help you out.

 

[The_Sheriff]

I would get a glock, they make them in 3 sizes in most defensive calibers. They are very easy to use and have no big safety's to worry about. I would go talk with a gunshop owner (they would know) also you should take a defensive gun class or just go ahead and take your ccw class. Most gun ranges offer these services for anywhere from $50 - $200 or more for personal classes. They will tell you about self defense laws and everything that you need to know. Also DO NOT forget to join the NRA!
- The_Sheriff

 

[black_powder_Rob]

Yes, I agree a gun is not always the answer. That being said I would advise if you do get a gun practice with it and only use it in a worst case situation.

like the others said call the cops and apt. managers when things happen or escalate and try not responding to the man, it is hard to argue with only one person. good luck with your situation and keep us informed on what happens.

 

[Firethorn]

Given the situation, and the need for an inexpensive weapon, I'll ditto the shotgun. Worst case, it IS impressive, more so than a handgun. Note: I'm of the opinion most people should have a personal defensive weapon, so my recommendation is NOT specific to your case. Load it with some form of buckshot, given you're in a shared wall apartment complex. Buckshot, while perfectly capable of penetrating drywall, will at least stop far faster than a rifle/pistol bullet. I wouldn't even go with the classic 00. I'd consider going with #1 or 2 buckshot. If you're concerned about thin walls - even #4 Buck(not bird), has a good stopping rate. Remember: You still have to aim with a shotgun!

Make sure it's a LEGAL shotgun. Read up the self defense rules in your state.

Do NOT threaten the guy with it. The only time you'd use it is if the guy threatens your life. In many states, if he breaks down the door and steps foot inside, THEN you'd be able to shoot him in self defense, for example. Consider this a losing scenario. At the least, you're almost virtually guaranteed to spend time in jail, lose the apartment, and spend lots of money on legal fees.

Choices: Moving is a definite option, as is contacting the renting agency/building owner/cops whenever there's a problem.

Note: This is an internet forum, we have only your words to go on. We don't have details of the apartment, just how nuts the guy is, etc...

Document, Document, Document. A video recorder, even a tap recorder of him assaulting your door(I presume it's your door), is good evidence. Calling 911 when he's pounding on your door is also a good idea - it's documentation at the 911 center, and will have time and impartial witness(the 911 operator).

Heck, you might be able to gather enough to charge him criminally if he says the wrong things while door-banging.

 

[mekender]

tripwires on the stair case... claymores on the landings... flood lights on the perimeter... that should keep the zombies at bay for a while, just remember to take head shots.

oh wait, hes just a pot head, not a zombie.... in that case, call the cops often and document everything.

 

[highlander 5]

As a landlord you have my sympathy but in my opinion a firearm at this point may not be the best idea,too much temptation to use it and you could be in some serious trouble. Get a can of pepper spray and keep it handy. If this guy starts as others said call the cops and keep calling if the guy won't quit being a jackass. Keep calling the landlord and complaining,eventually the landlord WILL get tired of the phone calls,letters of complaint etc and do something even if it's wrong. I'll probably get nailed for this but I'd mention the drug use to get the landlords attention,if the guy is dealing he could possibly loose his building should it be raided.

 

[cpttango30]

I agree with the majority that a gun is not the solution to the problem.

The main question I have and no one I have seen has asked. Why are you not calling the cops as soon as he starts beating on your door? As soon as he starts that I would be on the phone with 911 standing close enough to the door so the 911 operator can hear what he is saying. That I believe would get them there much faster.

In some states it is a crime (Not sure if felony or not) to verbally threaten violence or bodily harm. Get a camcorder and record the people coming and going if their is a lot of them. Call the police every time he starts his music. Like some one else said the police will get tired of dealing with this guy and tell him one more time and your going down town.

 

[lookn4varmints]

A couple of things strike me as noteworthy here:

a) He's a doper; marijuana for sure, and a high probability of more serious mind-altering substances as well. He is potentially more dangerous than you may realize. This is evidenced by the fact that he has already tried to enter your home in order to commit additional, unforseeable crimes. He is a serious threat.

B) The presence of drugs most likely means weapons are present. It goes w/ the territory. I would NOT want to rely solely on pepper or mace to defend my home. As a former big city paramedic, I can tell you I have seen way too many instances of the ineffectiveness of pepper or mace on those under the influence. Some guys respond to pepper or mace like you just squirted them w/ CheezWhiz. This is personal, firsthand experience for me. Don't bring an aerosol can to a gun fight INSIDE your home. MANY people have a highly misplaced trust in pepper or mace. If he enters your home, be prepared for him to come armed with more than his fists.

C) As previously noted, IF you buy a firearm, keep it inside for now and defend your home with it ONLY if he enters. A shotgun with defensive loads is good advice. Don't take this personally, but my first impression of you tells me you are a long way from carrying concealed. You need to educate yourself a great deal and re-think a few critical attitudes (FLEE CONFRONTATION). You'll find plenty of help here. Again, please don't take this personally. I have no desire to hear of you being locked away for life or buried in death. Your idiot neighbor is worth neither!!!

In closing: (Something like this)

Dear Landlord,
Either you evict Mr. Roid in Apt ___ based on my previous, multiple, and documented complaints or my attorney will see to it that YOU will pay MY moving expenses and MY first months' rent at my new apartment at a minimum.

Lovingly yours,
_____________

 

[mekender]

hell in NC if he were beating on the door with enough force that you reasonably believed he was trying to make entry, it would be legal to shoot through the door to prevent him from entering.

 

[ASM826]

You're renting

It may be a sorry commentary on the state of our country, but your best decision is to move. Immediately. Getting a gun is a separate decision. I think every citizen should be armed, and trained. The question raised here however, is your safety and the safety of your wife. The secondary question is what it will cost you if you use a firearm in self defense.

So move. Today if you can, and have a place to stay while you look for a new apartment. This week if you have to find a new apartment first. In the meantime, do nothing to provoke, no pounding, no confrontation. If you are attacked, well, then you do what you have to defend yourself, but avoid this person to the absolute best of your ability.

Do you want to have to shoot this person? No. Do you want to have to go to court, either criminal or civil (or both)? No. Do you want your wife to face this man when you are not around? No.

Move.

 

[Regolith]

If you do get a shotgun, don't get one with only pistol grip (like that mossberg you're looking at). Pistol grips make it difficult to aim the shotgun quickly, and the recoil can hurt your hand, which makes it difficult to practice with them. Make sure you get a shotgun with a full stock. They don't cost much more than one with a pistol grip (actually, they usually cost less).

Also, I agree with most of the posters here: If you do get a gun, only use it as a very last line of self defense. You should also check your local laws and regulations concerning firearm ownership and self defense, so you know what you can and cannot do.

 

[vtoddball]

I used to wonder why crime and poor behavior spread so rapidly. After reading the replies to this post I don't have to wonder any more.

Here a guy lives in a decent apartment building, gets along with his neighbors and then one jackass moves in and everyone's suggestion is "move." All evil needs to flourish is for good men to do nothing...or move away so it becomes someone else's problem. That works great until you run out of places to go because no one stood up to these idiots before it spread.

I'm not saying to be confrontational, but slinking away to avoid the problem isn't a solution. That attitude is what made it possible for anti-gunners to get so many laws passed hampering gun ownership. Instead of standing up for what was right, gun owners simply left CA, NY, MA, etc., leaving their stranded fellow shooters to fend for themselves. Then they act surprised when the anti-gun lobby, emboldened by the lack of resistance to the first round of laws, start drafting up even worse ones.

Just out of curiousity, what if it was a $200,000 home you owned with an obnoxious neighbor? Should you still move? $100,000? $50,000? What's the "just move" threshold? Moving to a new apartment can be just as expensive and cost prohibitive to some people, as buying/selling a house would be to others. I also think it's a little insulting to the OP's intelligence to think he has thought this through to the point where he joined a gun forum to ask for a little advice, and then assume that moving hasn't occured to him.

As an aside to the OP, keep in mind this is a gun forum. While you should take all opinions regarding firearms with a grain of salt, I'd guess a 75% accuracy rate on technical issues. When it comes to legal advice, ignore anything said on this forum and talk to a local expert. It's been my experience that many gunnies also consider themselves amateur lawyers and I think I'm being generous when I say amateur.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[FCFC]

... I do not own a gun, yet...

I am about to become a first time gun owner, though I have fired many guns of various types and understand how to fire one properly....


No one will help. He is a violent person and it has caused us to live in fear and stress. I have to watch when my wife leaves in case he flips, for instance.


I will be buying a gun to protect ourselves while living here....

What are my rights here? I live in Pennsylvania.

Which guns (type and caliber) have you fired and how long ago was it?

How old are you and wife?

Do you have any criminal arrest/conviction record?

 

[juk]

Just my .02... Next time he starts banging on your door open it. One of two things will happen.

1. he is so surprised he loses his initiative. (not likely.)
2. he hits you, you sue the piss out of him, he moves. end of story.

I too live in an apartment and have had similar instances. I'm 6'2" and 270lbs and always wore an evil grin when I opened the door. The next steps they take are 180 degrees from where they started.

 

[CliffH]

While reading the posts suggesting moving I was formulating my reply.

Vtoddball's reply was much better written than anything I can write.

I will ask though, how far and how often are you (that's a collective "you" for all you "movers" out there) willing to move?

 

[rainbowbob]

To the OP: Re-read vtoddball's post and give that man a cigar!

 

[NG VI]

a 12 gauge shotgun would be a cheap and versatile home defense gun, but I too think you should avoid confronting the punk whenever you can and keep calling calling calling the police and landlord until they do something about it, and if they don't wanna do anything about it, at least there is then a track record of you trying to get them to help the situation out if he ever does force his way into your apartment or attacks your wife.
And I don't think there is such a think as a gun that looks cute when it is aimed at you. There are lots of good police trade in guns to be found, I like CDNN personally, and they also have some great guns that are a great deal as well.

Be careful now, and don't escalate this situation to a physical confrontation. Obviously you have to keep trying to resolve the situation and if he does attack you there isn't a whole lot you can do to escape, but try to keep everything official. Maybe he'll be evicted for being a consistent nuisance.

 

[Zundfolge]

vtoddball makes several good points.

However this guy is renting an apartment, not defending his own property. Furthermore, he has a wife to protect. Her safety should be his primary concern, not his pride, not his rights, not solving the problems of the world.

 

[Horsesense]

Something I have not seen mentioned in this thread is: the OP is going to run into this guy in the parking lot or at his door sooner or later.

My suggestion is a big can of OC spray, for you and the wife, and a good folder knife. Yah yah.... get training, but be ready for some on the job training!

Get a CCP and a shotgun for the house, then get a .357 Ruger P 100 or some such. Document that you have notified the police and land lord, with certified letters, that you have been threatened. Get a restraining order.

The Land Lord is going to take the path of lea$t re$i$tance .

 

[CliffH]

However this guy is renting an apartment, not defending his own property.

I do believe that, in regards to protecting their lives, apartment and/or property, renters are afforded the same rights as home owners.

 

[Steve Raacke]

Will, As others have suggested, record things when they happen. Buy or borrow a camcorder to use. Anytime the music cranks up or you have to call management or the cops have the camera running. Make a copy of the tape/dvd and include a copy with your monthly rent and a letter to management explaining the problems are continuing. Keep a copy for your legal purposes.
One comment of yours which caught my attention was this-

I'd rather not have a gun around.

That is something you should really think about. Ask yourself, seriously, Do you reaaly want a gun in your home AND if you do decide to purchase a gun, and this is very important, Do You KNOW in your heart and soul that you could shoot and maybe Kill another human being? Think about it very seriously. Many people have made the mistake of buying a gun "for protection" thinking that having it would stop an agressor. Sadly, some of those same people hesitated or simply could not use deadly force when the time came and their own guns were taken from them and used against them by their attackers.
Yes, i am a gun owner and I carry one everywhere I go. But my lifestyle and mindset is probably not the same as yours. I firmly beleive that there are many people who should probably not own a gun. Among those are people, like you, who aren't comfortable with guns in the home in the first place. No offense meant. Look at it this way. I've never owned or used a chainsaw. I would not be comfortable using one unless I had lots of training on the safe use of a chainsaw by someone who knows how to use one. So I own several guns but am nervous as heck around chainsaws? Yep. I just don't know that much about them except for the few people who I know who have been injured by them. I keep thinking that they are just going to kick back and slice my face or leg off when I'm using them. So maybe, if there are people like me who are sort of nervous using chainsaws I figure there are lots of people with the same type of problem with guns. Weird but I understand.
Will, I hope you find a solution to your problem. I hope that either the guy downstairs learns to "play well with others", that your landlord moves him or that you are able to transfer to another unit. I wish you luck and keep you in my thoughts. Take care.

 

[Zundfolge]

I do believe that, in regards to protecting their lives, apartment and/or property, renters are afforded the same rights as home owners.

I wasn't addressing his legal right to self defense, I was addressing those that are suggesting that moving is a bad option merely because of "the principal of the thing".

 

[MJRW]

If you feel so threatened from a specific source that you feel a need to arm yourself against it, the wise and only reasonable decision is to put distance between you and the threat. Most of us that are gun owners are not armed against a specific threat but a general preparedness. You are not talking about general preparation. You're talking about a known threat.

I was out tonight for a walk and I encountered a very very strange fellow "stretching" with a bat. I felt threatened as he walked toward me and I warned him to keep his distance as I expanded that distance. I then made sure not to walk back that way. You need to do the equivalent of that.

On top of all of this, you've viewed guns as tools of intimidation, not lethal tools for protection. Your mindset is all off. You're not prepared mentally to do any of the things that need to be done. Frankly, in your hands, a gun is a mistake. Prepare less than lethal methods and then create distance between you and the threat.

As far as vtoddball's response...well, you're not defending Wake Island. You're a dude in an apartment with a wife, and furniture that can be put into the back of a truck. To put pride before safety against a known threat strikes me as an easy thing to armchair. Let's not make this some greater principle than it actually is.

 

[chris in va]

Cops/management don't care unless they see things for themselves. Might be prudent to get a hidden video camera or digital recorder.

I remember seeing a show on TV about a guy that was constantly getting jacked up by a 'bully' in his apartment complex. One day he got fed up and mounted a hidden video camera above his door. BG got arrested.

 

[lookn4varmints]

So I own several guns but am nervous as heck around chainsaws?

Dang, there's an idea! Get a chainsaw! One like the real lumberjacks use; powered by a motorcycle engine with a 60" cutting bar.

I have to agree that moving is a bit over the top when the law is in your favor. I would exhaust all of my legal options first. I'm not going to let some moron run me out of my home with illegal conduct; owner or renter. I'm guessing if he's not evicted beforehand, he'd probably get evicted soon after you left. Let him be inconvenienced w/ relocation. I'd hate for you to move, then he gets evicted and follows you to your next apt building. Would you move, again?

Keep after your landlord, the PD, and document EVERYTHING with audio and video. Your best bet is to call the PD next time you smell weed. Your phone call might help them acquire the probable cause needed to enter his apt, thus expediting the eviction process. Also, many attorneys will give you a free initial consultation, and you could probably get a big scary letter sent from your attorney to the landlord for $100, give or take.