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Virginia's next move

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by jr45, Nov 7, 2019.

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  1. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    There must be a set of common talking points agreed on ahead of time. It would be bad for people to show up and work at cross purposes. Does VCDL have a strategy committee?

    I believe it's too late to defeat the governor's antigun proposals completely. Even the most controversial of the proposals, the AWB, is probably going to pass in some form. The fight will be over the details, and one particular "detail," grandfathering, will be crucial. If the VCDL can get grandfathering, that should be counted as a victory. On the other hand, if the VCDL pushes to kill the bill completely, fails, and as a result we don't get grandfathering, that would be a tremendous defeat.

    This is not compromise. This is rescuing what we can out of a bad situation.
     
  2. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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  3. HighRoadRover

    HighRoadRover Member

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    This is a good time to write short, focused letters to key legislators from both parties. The less rhetoric, the better they may be received.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  4. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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  5. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    According to their website VCDL has about 8,000 members. A total of 30,000 follow their site. This is a small percentage of the well over 400,000 Virginians who have concealed carry permits. Much of their website needs updating:

    https://www.vcdl.org/

    i sincerely hope that VCDL gets it together and effectively opposes gun control in Virginia.
     
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  6. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    On Lobby Day, it would be a grave mistake for the VCDL members to come armed. The members of the legislature would see this as intimidation, and that would be enough to turn any fence-sitters against the pro-gun side. Besides that, it would be terrible optics for the general public. Yet, I see a lot of comments online advocating for thousands of armed people to descend on Richmond. Sometimes we can be our own worst enemies.

    BTW, a bill is being introduced, as a first order of business in the new legislative session, to outlaw the open carrying of guns on the capitol grounds. So you see where this is going.
     
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  7. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    Carry is already outlawed in the General Assembly building, so it would definitely be a good idea to leave any "dangerous weapons" at home.
     
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  8. HighRoadRover

    HighRoadRover Member

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    For the Lobby Day, and any other engagements with the Legislature, why not dress as you would for a typical day at work? If you are in construction, where your Carharrt jacket. If you wear office casual at work, wear it to the Capitol. If you wear a suit, wear that. If you wear scrubs, ditto. In other words, show them what we look like for real: mostly pretty normal, unassuming, respectful, main-stream, business-like, responsible, good neighborly.

    Taking guns along to Lobby Day is a very bad idea.
     
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  9. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Yes. Do not wear camo, or claim to be any kind of militia. Legislators pay attention to voters, not to "militias."

    There's a movement afoot in Virginia, not only for localities to declare themselves "gun sanctuary counties," but to organize local "militias" in order to claim the protection of the state constitution. Such "militias" not only have no legal standing, but they make all gun owners, by association, seem like a bunch of nuts.
     
  10. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    ''The good news for now is that the ban on magazines over 10 rounds would not apply to possession (that is, currently-held magazines would be grandfathered for now), and that suppressors for now have been dropped from the bill. Machine guns are still not included in the bill, for now and with their magazines and belts grandfathered, they would continue to be usable. Ordinary pistols (those with magazines housed in the grip) for now would not be affected by the bill.''

    Self explanatory, or, does ANYONE figure this is the last move?? Seriously?
     
  11. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    ''Its a bad idea''...''a grave mistake''...''the governor has already...'' ''don't wear camo...'' OMG what side is some ppl on anyway? What exactly IS approved, feed sacks as pullovers, rope around waiste for a belt,no shoes, peasant farm implements in hand, approacheth the state house on bended knee?

    If they don't want to hear from the regular folk, don't pass foolish & stupid laws. Once advocating for F&S laws, expect the hills to turn out.

    Whatever, DON'T OVER DO IT it's just your rights at stake!!
     
  12. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    Another reason that occurred to me this morning to oppose this. AR's can be made "compliant" with some cosmetic changes. Hi-Point carbines, Tavors, Kel-Tec bullpups, et al, cannot be. AR's are the public image of "assault weapons", and where the anti's try to divide firearm owners, but here, it is already further-reaching than at first glance.
     
  13. 40-82

    40-82 Member

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    What many of you may not realize is the genuine fear urban and suburban people have of us. They might feel safe enough crossing the vast rural stretches of Virginia on an interstate, but if occasion requires they drive a rural highway they get nervous and mutter, "There's rednecks with guns out here."

    A few years ago, a Judge from Bristol, England found some 17th century documents in his office safe that related to land grants in the Wythe County, Va. He decided to visit Wytheville and present these documents to the local historical society. Out of appreciation the town gave him a tour of historical sites out in the county. He related on Facebook how frightened he was of driving through rural Virginia, a place he assumed to be populated with feuding hillbillies with easily offended senses of ignorant honor. Naturally, the battery on the town's touring van died in front of the farm. While I jumped their battery, I got into a conversation with him. He didn't say anything about his fears to me, but I almost showed him my half-concealed single action Colt with the British proof markings I carried that day. Some instinct warned me not to show him the Colt--it would have been a mistake.

    After confessing his fears on Facebook, he mentioned his amazement about how friendly and non-threatening we seemed.

    This isn't an isolated story. The media has done a number on us.

    Simple articulate conversation will help us. Slogans, anger, won't.

    We have to break into a sense of elitism and classicism. More than one educated outsider has driven through a small town, seen the working men in rough clothes in pickup trucks, and felt the chagrin that these men have the same voting rights they do. Worse, they had the right to be armed. Deer season when hunters pass through public venues wearing the required orange is particularly upsetting, whether they display a firearm or not.

    Technical details will help us but little. A woman I know and see frequently asked me to explain what a semi-automatic weapon was. She knew possession of such a thing to be evil and wrong. She'd learned it from trusted news sources: CNN, New York Times, etc. My simplified explanation of how they worked, and that they were one action type only, and not inherently more dangerous than any other satisfied her minor curiosity, but it wasn't going to change her mind.

    The shock she has to deal with is that she's met an actual gun owner who doesn't appear to be irresponsible, inarticulate, or particularly criminal.

    Realize the hole we're in. More than they fear criminals, our political opposition fears us. They believe we'd use whatever political power we might have not just to support the Second Amendment, but to turn back the clock and re-institute racism, suppress women's rights, and generally take the country back to a place that reflects a pre-New Deal America.
     
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  14. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The final result is likely to vary from the pre-filed bill. But since the pre-filed bill is the opening gambit (the negotiating marker) for the antis, the final result will probably be less restrictive rather than more restrictive. A simple removal of the words "possession" and "transport" would, in effect, grandfather current AW's, and those purchased between now and the effective date of the bill (presumably July 1, 2020). This is where we should be concentrating our efforts.
     
  15. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    That only works if you honestly believe that this will be the last law that they try to pass, and that the next session won't "expand" on the failure of any of these laws to curb crime, and may very well contribute to an increase in violent crime, as criminals will have less fear of defenders.
     
  16. jr45

    jr45 Member

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    Any grandfathering (if offered) will be temporary and will only be offered to pacify us. How long do you think it will last until something happens, even in another state, and they will ban and demand turn in? Not long! Virginia is now controlled by the populated left northern portions and a lot of out of state money and will not be satisfied until a complete ban is in place. With the district maps are being redrawn by the newly elected next year, they will ensure they stay in power for decades. As you will see below, they are not coming just for firearms, they are coming after the way of life. We need to prepare for a long fight...I see this being our only chance.
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+HB2
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+SB16
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+lst+ALL
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  17. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    I'm not naive enough to think that the antis won't be back for more. But what choice do we have? The antis have the numbers (in the legislature) and they can pass anything they want. The only thing we can do is exploit some cracks in their unity. This will not change the fundamentals (we're about to get raped) but it may make some improvement at the margins. If we can get grandfathering -- even if temporary -- that will be huge. At least it will buy time to relocate to some other state in an orderly way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  18. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Member

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    A bit of advice...showing up for a lobbying day is not nearly as effective as showing up to testify against legislation.

    And pack the damned building full.
     
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  19. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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  20. Doc Samson

    Doc Samson Member

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    From my experience, the only thing that dissuades anti-2A'ers is a fear of not being able to become (or maintain) "career politician" status and it doesn't look like that will be an issue anytime soon, unfortunately.

    Death by a thousand small cuts or the frog and boiling water analogies seem applicable just about everywhere. When you have to take solace in rulings/laws that don't "infringe" quite as much as you thought they would, well, that ain't good. The Disarmament Movement never quits or yields while most of us (myself included at times) remain complacent everywhere but on the forums...
     
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  21. Jethro1200

    Jethro1200 Member

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    Please point out the language that shows magazines over 10 rounds would be grandfathered. I have been looking but not finding it. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  22. Jethro1200

    Jethro1200 Member

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    This VA folk believes it will send a message. The 2A Sanctuary is a good, fairly easy first step since the County Supervisors in most rural counties feel as we do. The question I have for the board is, Can anyone suggest a next step? Aside from the obvious of showing up in Richmond and speaking with as many lawmakers as possible.
     
  23. Jethro1200

    Jethro1200 Member

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    I have been one of the "leaders" in the past. No one from VCDL prepared me in any way. I have spent a large part of my professional life in sales and have been on many, many cold calls so that and a bit of research on my own was it. The result was I was ill prepared. I know others that played the same role so my experience was not a one off. If Lobby Day is to be a useful exercise one step that needs to be made is some form of preparation for these "leaders". This was years ago and maybe things have changed, let's hope so.
     
  24. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Jethro1200 wrote:
    Please point out the language that shows magazines over 10 rounds would be grandfathered. I have been looking but not finding it. Thanks

    The following is the provision in the pre-filed Senate bill that concerns magazines:
    § 18.2-308.9. Sale, transfer, etc., of certain firearm magazines prohibited; penalty.
    A. Any person who imports, sells, barters, or transfers any firearm magazine that is designed to hold
    more than 10 rounds of ammunition is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    Notice that it does not criminalize possession. Last summer's HB 4021 did so, meaning that this is a significant backtracking by the antis.

    What this would presumably do is freeze magazines with their current owners. Of course, it would be unenforceable.

    I'm hoping that the final bill does something similar with the guns themselves.
     
  25. Jethro1200

    Jethro1200 Member

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    Thank you for pointing that out, it may be the only light in this whole sordid affair.
     
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