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Volunteers 'with heat' to support National Guard

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Desertdog, Jan 9, 2007.

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  1. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    ZeSpectre: Do you have any links or facts to back up the statement you made about universal healthcare?

    I always here things about how illegal immigrants get social security, free healthcare, education, and other things that American citizens dont. But I have not seen any proof.

    As for these armed citizens, we all agree that it is the National Guards job to police the border right? Why dont we start policing our streets as well?

    How about you go stand on the corner and start rounding up the drug dealers? What about kicking down the doors of the local crack house and start arresting its occupants? Why not?

    I am sorry but it is not your job. If you want to make it your job please go and join the police force, the national guard, or Border Patrol.

    Remember owning a gun and having a CCW does not make you a commando, police officer, or any sort of Law Enforcement personal.
     
  2. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Member

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    That's that, then. I guess we'd better do nothing, and let the nanny.gov take care of everything. Which, in this case, is currently amounting to the same thing.

    I don't think the Minuitemen should be on the border, but then I also think that one of the duties of the fed.gov is to keep the borders secure! When the feds are too busy repressing our rights to fulfill their actual job, then it's high time for the gov's boss to step in.

    That's right: We, the People.
     
  3. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Cdaddy...

    We both know that we're not gonna involve AC-130s. However, the mere presence of armed observers can be quite a strong deterrant to potential bad guys. To be honest (and cold), I don't see any innocents sneaking across our border.
    They're guilty of a multitude of crimes and will soon commit more after their safe arrival in a US city, all at the taxpayer's expense.
    I don't want to see women and children killed, but I do want this invasion to stop, and if it means that people bite the big one due to exposure or snakebite or whatever because they had to cross at more difficult locations - sorry, their fate was a consequence of their own actions.

    Just the way it is...

    Biker
     
  4. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    what you got against c 130's?

    so long as they are on our side of the river we can do the 3 s's.

    sends a message. letting a group of irregulars play sends a different message
     
  5. foob

    foob Member

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    I like how you made leftist = anti gun = anti American.

    Next someone is going to say rightist = pro gun = pro American, right right?

    Stereotypes for the win :neener:
     
  6. carlrodd

    carlrodd Member

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    like how you made leftist = anti gun = anti American.

    Next someone is going to say rightist = pro gun = pro American, right right?

    Stereotypes for the win


    perhaps he was simply listing their observed offenses and letting the reader decide whether there was some correlation:)
     
  7. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    Last time I checked Mexico was our neighbor, not our friend. During WWII they harbored Nazis giving them a base to spy on us from. During the cold war the soviets set up an embasy (lee harvey oswald visdited it) in Mexico to give them a spying base to spy on us. We've been to war with mexico more than once. Though we may be at peace now there is little keeping that peace. Mexico benefits financially from us, Money sent back by illegals is the 2nd largest sorce of monies for the country, only surpassed by oil. By inforcing the border and deporting illegal aliens the US would give mexico a huge revenue cut. Would that be enough for armed conflict? I hope not, but there is a huge movement to return Atzlan to Mexico.

    The way I see it is that the drug cartels and coyotes will push us too far and we will start defending the border ala Operation Wet Back The Mexican Government will retaliate for our "attacks" and the war will last a short while, last time we fought mexico we pushed all the way to mexico city.
     
  8. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    Well Tecumseh, here you go.

    Video broadcast of his acceptance speech at 8:00AM this morning, national news. Office of the Governor http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/5057/

    Here is the video... http://msmedia.dot.ca.gov/governor/20070108_health.asf

    At 6:47 he talks about health coverage and illegal immigrants and since part of his plan would be...
    it looks like Californians will have to foot the bill either way.

    If so it would be nice if the interference would stop and they -could- actually do their job.

    You are supposed to, it's called civic responsibility. I did as a police officer and I continue to do so as a responsible citizen. I participate in neighborhood watch, I report suspicious activities, I am involved because it's MY NEIGHBORHOOD and I accept my part of the responsibility for keeping it nice.

    Manpower, firepower, and the disapproval of those parts of society who believe it's the "nanny state's" job to clean up the trash in whatever form it takes. Oh, maybe that was a facetious question.

    Been there, done that. And if you truely think that participating in the running of this country is not the responsibility of EVERY citizen then I am deeply saddened.

    Okay, look up "straw man" because I don't ever recall any of this being part of my postings.
     
  9. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    It is precisely our duty and right as citizens to take direct action in precisely the ways you describe. The fact that we usually choose to pay others to do it for us doesn't negate this. Where did you get the idea that dealing with crooks was something in the exclusive domain, as if by right, of the police? I hire an organization to remove my garbage from my premises twice a week, but I retain the right to do it myself should I ever so choose.
     
  10. AZTOY

    AZTOY Member

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    Why don't we all become fillbusters and just take over Mexico.





    It worked for Texas. :rolleyes:








    :neener:
     
  11. Outlander1

    Outlander1 member

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    Good for them !!!! Right on ....Walk the walk talk the talk . They have more balls then most of the closet libs here .
     
  12. CountGlockula

    CountGlockula Member

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    For American's to be retreating just ticks me off.
     
  13. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    ze spectre

    so you feel that his plan to avoid having to treat illegals in the er, as mandated by federal law, and instead to provide a system where they can recieve treatment covered by insurance in in a dr's office at a fraction of the cost is a bad thing?

    and his plan would also extend that umbrella to the rest of the uninsured who inundate er's for various non emergency care
     
  14. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    An armed force of citizens is clearly not going to be an effective deterrent to a concerted military-scale invasion. All we are seeing here is a symptom of a problem the full dimensions of which wil be dramatically revealed over the next year or two. Most Americans very much want to play by the rules and be good citizens and good neighbors. Obviously they are being let down and sold out by the people who are supposed to represent their interests. At some point the citizens will just stop believing and will stop playing the game. Then the gloves will really come off--on both sides. When there is bad faith and bad will, as there is with both the American and Mexican governments, the resolution of the problem cannot be very good. I expect this to get uber-ugly in the near future.
     
  15. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    long eyes

    thats a great synopsis i wouldn't mind though if it turns out better
     
  16. tellner

    tellner member

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    Well, as a non-closeted, non-trolling, unapologetic pro-gun Leftist (not a liberal) I'll say this...

    No matter how many are veterans and no matter what sort of background checks they have they're setting themselves up for some serious publicity. Their public image is already bad. If they continue with this course I can only think of a few possible outcomes.

    1. They shoot the wrong person They're screwed. Game. Set. Match. Leaders get charged with everything from barratry to aggravated mopery with intent to loiter. RKBA takes a body blow. Odds are if they do shoot the wrong person it will be a Latino whom they suspect of being an illegal doing something dangerous. Latinos are an important voting bloc. Do the math.
    2. They shoot the right person Legal wrangling. Charges eventually get quietly dropped. Or not. Depending on how the governments handle this it could be very good or see above.
    3. They don't get into any confrontations Public perception won't change or they will be portrayed as a bunch of wannabe Cactus Ninjas. Forget the reality, that's how it's going to play.
    4. They shoot a really wrong person Dead Guardsman? Dead BP agent? The Law makes a mistake, takes a shot and Charlie Foxtrot ensues? See #1 above but in spades with chocolate sprinkles on top. Look for GOP coming out with anti RKBA laws the next week. USC10 disappears.
    5. They get shot They will certainly suffer heavy casualties. Many of them are veterans. So what? They're coming up against cohesive groups with real equipment, lots of experience, possibly trained in irregular warfare by the US government. We have a cusp. Either they'll become martyrs and focus attention wonderfully or they'll be right wing nutjob Cactus Ninjas who got what they deserved. Hard to tell which way it would fall out, very good or very bad.
    6. They get media attention before anything really happens Almost certainly bad. The publicity they've gotten so far can be summed up in the cartoon showing a 1775 Minuteman standing next to a dumpy dork with an AR-15, a beer cooler and a lawn chair. Look for heavy pressure on local law enforcement to shut them down.
     
  17. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    Wrong venue. Try the steps of the Capitol and in front of the White House. That is where the real problem is.
     
  18. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    Did I say that? I don't recall saying that. I do recall saying that he may be creating yet another incentive for people to jump the border. No mention anywhere that I can find about the humanitarian side of things, just a comment on incentives to cross the border.

    I'll be darned, Post #17
     
  19. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    Governor SchwartzeRINO is pushing for more socialism with his health care plan. It's a bandaid for cancer. Having Joe American pay for Jose Mexico to get health care doesn't fix any problems it just masks them. I am sick and tired of people using emotion to justifty the actions of criminals!

    If anyone wants to argue pro-illegal imigration, please, do so in a logical way. Emotions should not affect the treatment of criminals. Just because you're American doesn't mean you have to play superman,police,army to the world.
     
  20. Keith Wheeler

    Keith Wheeler Member

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    "Sold out". Exactly. Reference my earlier posts in this thread about the oligarchy's need for cheap labor. I honestly believe that is the focal point of this issue, and why even though their political base has a counter opinion, those in control on the right (like our president) won't do anything about it. Corporatism.
     
  21. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    heck

    they already get the health care this plan lowers cost and intensity of it as well as covers a variety of uncovered local boys and girls
     
  22. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    Too bad you weren't around in 1775 to advise our Founders. Fortunately, they didn't think like lawyers or marketing "experts" or journalists.
     
  23. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    SHTF

    You know, it occurs to me that we have here a slow-motion train wreck.

    We often see threads containing "what [blank] if SHTF" on the forum.

    There have been discussions of everything from Red Dawn to Katrina.

    These scenarios almost always deal with 1) big temporary event or 2) big event with long term outcome. Both of these have a "suddenness" aspect to them.

    Here we have one of the scenarios I've never seen addressed: What [blank] for SHTF in really slow motion, over years.

    Home invasion? Shoot the bastard, and good on ya!

    How about a home invasion that takes place over six months? Now what? Once you see with clarity that you ARE being invaded, what then? Shoot the bastard, and . . . what? You mean your'e the only one who sees the danger to your life and home and family? Sux to be you, dude.

    How about a home invasion that takes YEARS? Little tiny skirmishes, none of which breeches the threshold for "violent" confrontation?

    At what point is it acceptable to draw a line and say, "this far and no farther" and stand on it?

    If we allow the concept that "if you do it slowly enough, invasion is okay" then we're well and truly screwed.

    Unwilling to engage in any kind of confrontation, unable to recognize any evil, we will one day look behind ourselves, and the cliff over which we're about to step, and wonder how it got that way.

    I don't care HOW slowly you approach a black hole. When you reach the event horizon, you are DONE.

    Where is our event horizon? How close are we willing to get?
     
  24. carlrodd

    carlrodd Member

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    Where is our event horizon? How close are we willing to get?

    it seems like some states are well past it. at the end of the day, joe american drives the ship, along with the rest of the collective, and i'm sorry to say that the collective seems to be determined to destroy itself, and cannot help but head straight for black hole.
     
  25. tellner

    tellner member

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    Longeyes, it's too bad you weren't around on the third planet out from the Sun in 2007. You might have learned something about reality. Stop sniping and start actually thinking about the consequences of actions. The universe doesn't give a damn about how you wish things would be, only about how they are. And what I've said is pretty much the range of scenarios and their probable outcomes.
     
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