Discussion in 'Legal' started by Desertdog, Jan 9, 2007.
America has ceased to exist. I guess that it was a good idea at one time.
Wait a tick, is this "report" worth getting worked up over?
1. It's WND. 2. They are reporting on the Cactus Ninjas who are bleeding money left and right and need publicity, any kind of publicity.
5 rings, still fits
there are reasons why groups train together as opposed to a group of guys loading up and playing soldier against real soldiers. the observe and support role is cool but even trained units screw up in theses deals (see dead goatherd) a grop of ambitious semipros will endanger everyone including them selves
man I'm glad those rag tag losers in early America didn't stand up to the professional killers from England. Just think what could have happened, a bunch of them didn't even have shoes for a time.
Ok sarcasm over; we must remember that character counts in a fight. The moral imperative one has, the sense of righteous duty, however manipulated or valid, is often as important as a moderate disparity of training. AND I for one would not discredit educated, prepared, equipped, Americans, when confronted with thugs hired by a mexican gangster. The invader should never be underestimated, sound military philosophy should always apply, but good God if we throw in the towel to a third world band of drug runners what hope is there?
Besides, if you truly believe in your cause, comparison is only useful in determining tactics, NOT in deciding a surrender.
"Size matters not" - Yoda
ps - um, God's pseudonym not used vainly
Funny? Yes. Correct? No.
I don't think comparing a bunch of responsible Americans that give a damn about our nation's security should be compared to our beloved Mall Ninja! Mall Ninja is dillutional, the Minute Men are Patriots.
When they start shooting Mexicans for the hell of it then I'll stop writing off these statements at leftwing propaganda.
kungfuhippie, if you'll notice I used the term to describe popular perceptions, not reality. It's how they are seen which implies no relation to what they are. This is a political fight, not a military one which means that perception is everything.
tellner, I was responding to El Tejon's post, not yours...
Just didn't want the term to become main stream...
I don't see this as being a real drawback, since the lack of presence by the sheriff departments and other government entities is part of problem. If LEOs aren't watching the backroads and borders close enough to see what the drug smugglers are doing, then they won't be watching it close enough to see what the Minutemen are doing.
Anyhow, I am sure the Minutemen would love for someone to take over what they are doing, so as to make them redundant and unecessary. That group is by now long past the stage where spending a night at the border is exciting or glamorous, I am sure.
I must confess I don't know alot about the minute men but why haven't these situations happened yet then? It seems a lot like the "blood in the streets" we hear about concealed carry.
Hasn't happened yet, and the odds on any particular day are low. But all it takes is one to really foul things up. CCW is a little different in that people are pretty discreetly carrying, and even if there are screwups it would take more than a few to cause a significant change in public and legislative attitudes.
I'm not so sure about that, it looks like people are already trying to fix concealed carry "problems" without any incidents to justify it http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=246456
Really your list of potential problems is exactly what is used against people being allowed to carry, concealed or open. What is the catalyst that will make them suddenly so likely to get into trouble when they haven't in the past? Or are you just worried about the possibility of it ever happening even while very remote?
Like what, exactly? Old gunnies returning fire on drug cartel and Mexican Army, inside the United States? OH NOES!!!
"Like what, exactly? Old gunnies returning fire on drug cartel and Mexican Army, inside the United States? OH NOES!!! "
i was thinking more like the incident where a military observation team killed a kid herding goats
and while most of the minutemen are just what we might hope for check out the website with the video of them working day labor sites in particular find the one where one of their leaders and a member have to be seperated. it would appear some of the membership might be a lil headstrong have "does not play well with others issues that could be deadly problematic if they try to expand beyond their current role.
If the Minute Men were ever to find themselves fighting for their lives, pinned down by drug cartel folks from Mexico, and managed to call for help, knowing this bunch in DC, the National Guard will arrive to join the drug cartel folks in shooting at the Minute Men. Surviving Minute Men would then be transported to Mexico for trial by our National Guardsmen. The treason that is taking place at the highest levels of our government runs much deeper, I fear, than many care to accept.
i would be surprised
if in that situation there were any survivors. and that is just one of the reasons this plan blows
Tellner, there are situations where "reality" ain't nearly good enough. You'll figure that out eventually. Keep letting "perception" define America's future and it won't have any.
I'm betting on their being enough people who can see beyond your notions of "perception" to pierce the veil and start turning this insanity around. Americans are being undone by their own good natures, their own sense of trust, their own law-abidingness. It's become a national auto-immune disease.The people who run the show are counting on people playing along. If we keep worrying about politeness, about niceness, about not giving offense, we are dead as a nation. The other side has learned how to turn our best instincts against us. That will require a paradigm-shift in our attitudes and a whole lot of reality check.
What we're learning slowly but surely is who to hold responsible when the bottom drops out.
The Executive Branch are the ones to blame. After All they don't want to close the borders to Mexico and Canada all the while they are trying to circumvent the Constitution and Congress to create the North American Union. Its all part of the game. Today they act as if they want to stop them and tomorrow there will be a 10 lane super highway from Mexico to Canada.
I suspect that if the Minutemen do attempt to assist the NG, and are armed, they will quickly run afoul of the law. If the report is true, they are in over their head, and the first one who shoots at someone will probably go to jail, and will at least be out thousands of dollars in lawyer fees.
It is a bad idea. I know of no law that permits such to get involved in international problems, unless one is attacked when minding his own business.
Wow - What A Thread
Man - 4 pages in a day, lotsa thought (not all of it makes sense mind you, but lotsa thought, nonetheless).
Some summary points on what I've read:
1) Someone mentioned the MInutemen should work the system; well, that's been done long ago. The Minutemen were in the news 18 month or so ago, made visits to DC, tried to speak at universities in the DC area where idiot students shouted them down. They came to DC, they tried to raise concerns....no one at .gov is listening, so they're doing what someone else won't do.
2) Oops, I take that back - they did get some attention while near DC, Jorge managed to call them "vigilantes" when speaking to the press, which must surely feel good to all of our veterans who are involved in the Minuteman effort.
3) As for all of the doomsday posts that "something bad could happen", what about all of the stories about homeonwners along the border, that have been running in papers in TX, NM, AZ, CA etc for the past 24 months? Something bad HAS BEEN happening. Step away from the hi-def widescreen, and wake up to that, please.
4) When a bad guy kicks your door in, if you try to defend your property, something bad could happen. Does that mean you're going to stop trying to defend your home and your property?
Anytime someone steps up and takes a stand when others are loath to do so, something bad could happen. I guess they believe, that the alternative is a lot worse.
God bless them, and keep them safe.
tell me where the original news link gets these numbers? "he said studies show that the death toll from the crimes of illegal aliens within the United States has been estimated from 12-25 lives – per day. "It is an invasion. It is real. People are dying," he said.
the reason i ask if you use his low number illegals are killing 1/4 all the folks murdered in the us his upper number (and there is a wide range in his "studies") would require us to believe they account for more than 1/2 the murders. and i've checked the local crime pages and can't even come close to those numbers, but then i'm not trying as hard as he is
wanna hear about a silent war?
How about this....something bad may happen huh?
A "friend", too close for me to safely identify, was getting his girl off of meth. Gave her a place to stay, helped her with work, cooked food, kept her away from the dealers who are affiliated with the mexican mafia - who are running the meth trade here now on some indian reservations.
They nailed his hands to a table and cut him up letting him bleed to death. His funeral was over on the res. . .
don't tell me about some BS bad gonna happen.
I don't know if it is 1, 12, or 25 a day....but that day I can vouch for one good man who shouldn't have gone down. He didn't CCW, didn't see a need, never imagined interrupting the drug trade could be so personal.
Now emotions run high on this issue, and believe me I try to pierce through my own 'stuff' to root out what is really right, and wrong. I just can't figure at this time why anyone wouldn't at least kick the floor once when a load of this crap (drugs, slaves - 18,000 annually, armed paramilitary goons in black - oooh, socialist mentality, al qaida) comes over. Can't we see that it is a sign, a symptom of the failing ability of the U.S. to solve problems through government intervention alone. Citizens are what make us strong as a nation, we should support our own whether they be fat, old, black, white, indian, or hispanic. . . criminals are criminals, thugs are thugs. . . their very profession hints at their poor decision making ability. Think they are so well trained and expert? They are tools, pawns, where as the MM are free and volunteering.
People will realize one day, just like many anti's, "we need brave warriors, men of action, perseverence, determination, we need to fight", and then realize they had crushed them with their own good intentions and inability to perceive the harsh nature of reality long before.
ps - I'm not done. If a dog challenges you and you back down he is in charge. If a horse pushes against you, and you back down, next time he may bite, then throw you off, then knock you over for food, and perhaps kick in your head because you disciplined him. Humans are likewise; you either say NO, I won't stand for it, or next time you're gonna have to stand for more. It's a chipping away. . . a bully who starts to push, shove, smack, punch, kick, and walk away with your stuff.
I think a new term is in order. I call it SHTP; S**t hit the pants.
It's the description of what's happening already. . . face a threat, and SHTP. Armed thugs = SHTP. Bad politician = SHTP. Criminals in your neighborhood, you got it = SHTP.
Maybe we should have a SHTP thread, you know, you and your buddies are guarding the United States border; you step outside to breathe in the cool night air. As you sip on the Gatorade some E-2 picked up on his way out you hear something in the bushes. Your heart pounds. . . . suddenly 4 armed men in black jump out of the shadows and
THE S hits the P!You drop the magazine from your issue weapon and head for the shack. "Get out of here", you scream, and you pile into a 1/2 ton and head for friendly territory.
We've been here before:
sam about your friend lost some myself. make me not a nice man when i think about it. were the guys who did it illegals? because mant in the mexican mafia are legal. thinga like that can color our thinking. i've got a bleeding heart lil sis who's in egypt right now. we don't get along but i still worry about her being in the arab world. if something were to happen to her my attitude would suck. would have to work on not doing something stupid.all it takes is one guy like me with an issue or an axe to grind and this plan for help goes to heck in a basket.
You have it backwards. In a free nation, a citizen is at liberty to do everything which is not prohibited by just law.
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