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Volunteers 'with heat' to support National Guard

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Desertdog, Jan 9, 2007.

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  1. Biker

    Biker Member

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    No, SS, race is at the root of *your* issue, not mine. Do. Not. Project.
    I won't stand for it.

    Biker
     
  2. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Maybe for some, but not for all by a long shot. I don't care WHAT "race" an illegal alien is, nor their nationality. White, Black, Yellow, Irish, Mexican or Indian, if they are here illegally they need to be gone.

    Try telling Ray Herrera its about race. http://media.putfile.com/Ray-Herreras-Death-of-American-Dream
     
  3. Keith Wheeler

    Keith Wheeler Member

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    So a Mexican can't have good American values?
     
  4. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

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    If race isnt an issue, why is the anti-illegal crowd adovocating scrutinizing people of Hispanic decent? The are MILLIONS of Hispanic CITIZENS in this country who are NOT illegal.

    Why should a Hispanic man or woman have prove his/her citizenship at the whim of the authorities? You dont see anything wrong with that?
     
  5. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    American values would probably including using the front door and knocking first. Sneaking in the back door when no one is looking is B&E and illegal.
     
  6. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Not if said individual identifies himself as Mexican instead of American.
    Well, I've yet to see huge crowds of Indians, Thai or Irish marching in the streets, waving the flags of other nations, demanding forgiveness for breaking our immigration laws. Have you? If so, I'd love to see the links.
     
  7. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    Its easier for him to be here legally because he is willing to come here legally, he has a skill, and he can make a living, that would hold true in any country he went too.

    I am sure he speaks french, but no business owner in the US that has a business large enough to employee others can afford not to speak english.
     
  8. Biker

    Biker Member

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    SS...

    90% of the illegals in the USA are Hispanic. It's simple, common sense.

    Biker
     
  9. Keith Wheeler

    Keith Wheeler Member

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    And if it's not about race but values, why then throw out those who are hard working people who want a better life, that whole "American dream" thing?

    That's my issue. Thugs and drug runners? Throw 'em out. But I can not believe that every "illegal" is a thug, drug runner, socialist, gang-banger, whatever boogey man du jour.

    That's why I say it's (to me) a complicated issue. I don't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water". But maybe I'd be more American if I agreed with the poster who said "shoot 'em all?"
     
  10. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    A Mexican who wants to be an American and understands what it means, yes. But that's really not the reality today. You live in Arkansas, I live in Los Angeles. You want a preview of where we are heading? I don't see the Mexicans who came here illegally becoming "Americans"--why should they when there is no one pressuring them to do so any more? Bush talks about "values" but clearly is either clueless on the issue or deliberately disingenuous. Most Americans period seem confused about what American values are--I mean, isn't it the right to shop?

    All of this is about cheap labor and the bottom-line. We are all being turned into commodities. That's where a mass consumer market goes.
     
  11. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    Fine, but we have the rule of law in this nation. Supposedly.

    Let them go through the system. And let the system reflect the popular will.

    An immigration policy is not having a pair of feet.

    And we American citizens should have the last say about who gets to come, something that our elected officials and bureaucrats seem to have forgotten.
     
  12. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    Keith, you live in AK. That is a whole world away from what I see over here. You don't have these "immigrants" stealing from your backyard every single night of the week. You don't have them crashing into your car or truck and then fleeing the scene because they don't have insurance. You don't have to deal with walking into a building and spending time trying to find the english on the signs becuase 50% of every single sign is in spanish.
     
  13. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

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    So that justifies violating the rights of law-abiding Hispanic citizens?

    What's funny is this is exactly how gun control works. A bunch of yahoos are out there killing people with handguns. All of a sudden everyone, even law-abiding citizens, are lumped in with the criminal handgun owners.. Now handgun owners who have committed no crime are looked down upon and treated as if they've done something.
     
  14. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    Two things you are mixed up on.

    Rights are not being violated because in America criminals get arrested. They broke our laws coming here, there for they forfeit their "right" to be in the country. We don't let theives keep the stuff they steal from a home invasion.

    The other is that a few gun owners are lunatics, and the majority are law abiding. In this case, Every single person who crossed the border illegally HAS BROKE THE LAW!
     
  15. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Apples and canaries, SS. You can do better.

    Biker
     
  16. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    No one here is advocating discriminating against law-abiding American citizens or legal residents of Mexican descent. I'm certainly not.

    But that doesn't mean we can continue to give a free pass to everyone walking over our southern border.

    Let's hear a practical solution short of amnesty. This can't continue. And the American people, citizens, don't want it to. Who does? The U.S. Government and Corporate America.

    I hate to bring it to you but increasingly those two groups aren't really part of the America we used to know. Both are rogue states within what used to be the US of A.
     
  17. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

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    Gimme a break.. I lived 8 miles from the border in Chula Vista. I live 15 miles from the border now. I never had an illegal steal anything from me. I did have a bunch of white crystal meth tweekers break into my cars a couple times though.

    I've never even had a Mexican ask me for change... though every morning when I come home from work (around 6AM), I see a bunch of bums (white and black) digging through my trash cans. The illegal construction dudes are wide awake and look like they've been working for a couple hours already.

    Never been in an accident with an illegal. People with baja plates actually piss me off cause they drive so slow and careful. My Corvette doesnt like 55mph :)

    And what buildings are you going into that you cant conduct business? Even at the DMV in San Ysidro which is one mile from the border, I was able to do all my car stuff without a problem. I cant speak Spanish, and I only understand a minimal amount.
     
  18. Keith Wheeler

    Keith Wheeler Member

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    I lived in San Diego for a number of years. And "Hispanic" is the largest growing demographic in Arkansas. I've been attacked on this forum for supposedly not getting out of my home state and experiencing "reality"; obviously I'm not the only one.

    The Mexicans I know personally are proud to be here. This includes the baptist preacher across the street and the family that runs my favorite Mexican restaurant. I don't know if they are legal or not. What I do know is they are hard working, proud of their heritage, proud of this country, and embarassed when they don't know enough English.

    But then we're getting in to anecdotal evidence here, aren't we? Maybe so, but that's part of my point -- longeyes claims something just short of Mexicans being incapable of having American values, I claim to know plenty with them. If we want to get in to the demographics of crime, based on what has happened in Little Rock, I should be in favor of shipping blacks "back" to Africa? Our gang problem here has traditionally been a black issue.

    Of course if it comes down to "values", these are some of "my people's" (as some here would undoubtedly say) values:

    I'll leave it to the gentle reader to reference the source material.




    Ok, edited to add a bit of levity:

    Arg. That was my experience in San Diego. Speedy Gonzales? Not. :p
     
  19. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    ss

    but it coulda happened that way
     
  20. Davo

    Davo Member

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    SS it there any possible argument against illegal immigration...or is everyone who feels that way racist? Is it all about race for you? Even if you havent "seen" the illegal immigrant crime problem, is it there?
    Wheeler, I agree that most illegals are here to work hard, but if you believe that they dont bring a HUGE burden to our prison system, police, emergency services, and drug problem Id like to invite you out to So Cal, I will show you anytime the other side of the "they are here to work" argument. Im gonna guess you dont get to see much of that in AK.
     
  21. SamTuckerMTNMAN

    SamTuckerMTNMAN Member

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    That's my issue. Thugs and drug runners? Throw 'em out. But I can not believe that every "illegal" is a thug, drug runner, socialist, gang-banger, whatever boogey man du jour.

    Please don't assume that's what I, or anyone else that I read, is writing (saying). I think that's called 'straw man' argument...
    I didn't see a single post in the entire soon to be locked thread where anyone said that.

    If you get bitten by a snake, then one would be wise to be careful around snakes.
    If every tree that falls on you is yellow, then one would tend to watch the yellow trees with caution.
    It's simple why people feel distrust toward the hispanic community as a result of these negative things, it does not mean blanket racism.
    The same is true with people of Arab descent.

    Remember, the root source of this particular discussion is armed, paramilitary, gangs. It spills over into the whole immigration issue, but we can't back down from the original scenario.

    I explained it to a my pro-invader acquaintence this way; if you were drinking water and discovered it had 10% poison, would you not filter the whole jug?

    At the moment the situation is so fouled up that something drastic has to be done, it's like talking about getting band aid for a massive, bleeding hole in your dog. It's time for serious action. Talk later.

    When illegals are given the right to vote...when their votes sway American politics in favor of those who got them in here, we see clearly it is nothing short of a coup.

    Perhaps I'd feel heartened to see them dragging the bodies of drug lords over the border, or saying "aqui es el chico mal", and leaving some paramilitary dudes tied up at the border. I just might say, "Wanna learn about the constitution bro?"
    ST
     
  22. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

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    No, it's the same thing.

    You guys advocate scrutinizing Hispanic people based on the large number of Hispanic illegals. Nevermind all those Libertarian values you guys are always toting. Nevermind innocent until proven guilty. If he's brown he could be illegal.. better check him out.. better safe than sorry right?

    Being Black, I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Someone could say, "Hey Black males committ a disproportionate number of crimes.. the cops should stop all Blacks males and check them for warrants!" .. You cant see where Im going with this?

    Basically, it's not fair to punish law-abiding citizens for the actions of law-breakers.
     
  23. Keith Wheeler

    Keith Wheeler Member

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    Mr. Fincher broke the law with his "illegal" machineguns, but many on this board say he should go free. Ah, but that's a constitutional right! It's only illegal because of bad laws....hmmmm.
     
  24. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Member

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    I don't feel like re-reading the whole thread, but I found one post on page one that I think bears repeatng:

    For number one, I don't think there's any doubt that it's the latter, for God-knows-whatever reason(s)...:fire:
     
  25. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Sorry Keith, but my references indicate a different attitude.

    "Thou shalt enter mine house in a proper, respectful manner and abide by mine rules, or thou shall get thine ass smitten upon every step on thy journey back to the house from whence you came".

    From The Book of Biker:
    Knit 1:
    Purl 2

    The Very Reverend Biker
     
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