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Vulcan Safes from United Safes Corporation?

Discussion in 'Shooting Gear and Storage' started by Trumpet, Jun 3, 2008.

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  1. Trumpet

    Trumpet Member

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  2. dhoomonyou

    dhoomonyou Member

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    tagged.
     
  3. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    Lower end safes from China
     
  4. Trumpet

    Trumpet Member

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    thanks Frank. What exactly are the corners that are cut? I'm curious. We traded emails a couple years back. I may be in touch soon ;)
     
  5. Trumpet

    Trumpet Member

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  6. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    The Diamond Backs are also Chinese.

    Although we do sell the Diamond Backs ourselves, and they offer hard to beat features for the price, I still suggest you save up and buy a nicer US made unit.

    Some of the Chinese safes are nicer than others, and some are even nicer than their US counterparts. The problem that still remains, is that you get what you pay for.
     
  7. krs

    krs Member

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    Diamond Back has some "office" safes with 1/4" body walls and 1/2" door steel that interest. They'd make storage for several pistols.

    Are the locks on China made safes generally interchangable with US made locks, Frank? That ebay site listing gives buyers a chance to chose an assortment of lock mechanism for addition amounts of money.
     
  8. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    Even your brand name locks that you'll find on these safes are made in China. S&G and LaGard both make their lower end locks at a Chinese facility.

    So long as the lock is a UL rated lock, it should be easy to change from one lock to another.

    You have to be careful on E-Bay also. The company that sells these safes can't keep up with who's really in the safe business, and who only wants to sell online. If the manufacturer doesn't trust them, I wouldn't either.
     
  9. krs

    krs Member

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    Frank,

    Why is it that vault doors seem to cost as much or more than most gun safes?

    I'm giving up on a safe and thinking about a gun vault/safe room. I've got the perfect place that could be accessed through the wall right behind my desk for a room as big as 30' x 20' or any size smaller. But when I start looking at those vault doors it seems that there's an assumption that anybody who might be buying one has pretty deep pockets.

    Are vault doors overpriced, pound for pound in comparison with whole safes in your unbiased opinion and just between us gunlovers?
     
  10. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    I think if you're looking at "vault doors" built by gun safe manufacturers, you have a point. They do seem very proud of their product in relation to what it is you're actually getting.

    Keep in mind that just as these manufacturers build real safes, they don't build real vault doors either. You can count on spending at least $3,000 on anything worth having from these companies (including shipping). If you're looking at anything selling for less than that, you're looking at complete junk.

    The gun owners that call me tend to be more "frugal" than some of my other customers. Not counting the gun safe companies whos doors we sell, most light commercial doors start in the $10,000 range. We have sold used doors whos cost exceeded six figures. We also sell used doors starting at $1,000.

    It all depends on what you're looking at.
     
  11. krs

    krs Member

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    Before deciding on Washington my wife and I gave some serious thought to moving to Missouri. At the time all it would have taken to tip the scale was a knowledge that resources like you, Frank, exist in that state. :)

    I hadn't looked at vault doors made by gunsafe builders to my knowledge, but at vault doors generally. It seems as though they are as expensive or more than an entire safe. It may well be that I was viewing a door of much higher security than the safes on the same page, even by Amsec or other known good ones. I'm pretty much through considering a "gunsafe" type of product, thinking that the relatively small amount they cost would be better spent on insurance and having an adequate alarm system in place.

    Still, I don't like living in a way that makes my guns unavailable to me in my own home. I like them and like fussing around with them. They're my hobby, my babies even. I'd love to have a room for them all in one place, a place that was good and safe from intrusion when I'm not here.
     
  12. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    Fort Knox builds an OK vault door, and I probably install more of those in homes than any other. With shipping and installation you're pushing $5,000.

    Graffunder builds some nice doors as well, and they aren't as pricey as you would think. They are higher quality units, but still light enough for some home use.

    We recently sold a used Diebold Pacesetter for a home installation (there are photos on my website), and it ran $5,000 plus installation. Doors like this start at $30,000 new.

    Although the doors cost more than a whole safe, the overall cost per cubic foot is much less. If you can afford it, a room is a much better bargain than a freestanding safe.

    If you are planning on moving, they do make modular vaults than can be moved when you move. Again, they are a little more expensive up front, but that cost may be worth it if you need to take it with you.
     
  13. Trumpet

    Trumpet Member

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  14. Trumpet

    Trumpet Member

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    So I'm down to three finalists. I figure I could use a model that will hold 24 rifles, but I know to buy a size that gives me room to grow. I realize that it seems that each safe has strengths and weaknesses, but what would you all think is the best "bang for the buck"? I noticed that the Cannon has internal hinges. Why is something you don't want?

    I'm looking at a Cannon Patriot P40 www.cannonsafe.com/safespatriotseries.nxg for $1289 shipped, a Costco Cannon safe www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...11&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1 or a Zykan Diamond Back www.zykansafe.com/diamondgunsafes.html (bottom of page)

    Here's the specs on each....

    Patriot P40
    -40"x59"24"
    -600 lbs
    -1" steel composite door
    -Commercial grade Group 2 lock with key-locking dial
    -Triple fin intumescent cold smoke expandable seal that expands many times its size when exposed to heat
    -1" Active-locking bolts
    -Surefire multiple re-lockers
    -3 layers extra-hard, 60+ RC steel hard-plate protects the lock
    -Truelock internal hinges
    -3-spoke handle
    -Unibody construction
    -Pre-drilled bottom for bolting to floor
    -Heavy 12-gauge
    -Pre-drilled dehumidifier hole
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Costco Cannon EV900
    -72" H x 36" W x 24" D
    -Antique Matte Black and silk-screen logo
    -Heavy 12-gauge, uni-body construction
    -Massive 3/16" solid plate steel door with 1" active locking bolts
    -High security type 1 electronic lock
    -Brass-plated 3 spoke handle
    -Sure Fire multiple re-lockers
    -True lock internal hinges
    -Extra-hard, Rockwell-rated hard-plate
    -Fully adjustable shelving with Upholstered inside walls
    -Holds up to 30 firearms
    -Predrilled bottom for bolting to floor
    -Predrilled dehumidifier hole
    -UL® listed residential security protection –Exceeds CA. DOJ requirements.
    -36 Cubic Feet
    -Weight: 700 lbs.
    -UL® listed 5/8"-thick fire insulation is used on all six internal surfaces (door included)
    Heat-activated door seal expands to many times its size when exposed to heat
    Contents protected up to 1/2 hour at temperatures up to 1200 degrees F

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Zykan Diamond Back...
    Volume: 35 Cubic Feet
    External: 59.00" T x 40.00" W x 26.00" D
    Internal: 56.25" T x 37.75" W x 18.50" D
    Weight: 860 Pounds

    -It provides 1 hour of fire
    protection in a 1250 degree fire for up to 41 guns.
    -10 gauge (1/8 inch) heavy steel body
    -1/4 inch heavy steel door
    -UL listed group 2 mechanical lock and tri-spoke handle
    1 hour (1250 degrees) fire protection
    -41 gun capacity
    -(10) 1.5 inch diameter bolts locking on the left, top,
    bottom and hinge side of door
     
  15. Snagglepuss

    Snagglepuss Member

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    I would go with the Zykan safe. I have been reading his posts for years and really respect his opinion. Seems to be a real stand up guy. And very knowledgeable to boot.
     
  16. krs

    krs Member

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    +1 on the recommendation to go with Frank Zyken. It should be clear that he knows his stuff, and from my interactions with him here I'd say that he's also honest and good to deal with. No, I'm not his brother, or inlaw, or even know him at all beyond this site and these threads. In other words, no affiliations whatsoever, though I think it's my loss that it is the case.

    As I get it internal hinges don't offer any added security to a safe but they do offer a conductive path for the heat of a fire to heat the internals in the safe, even to the point of igniting paper products and singeing wood. Sorta' negates whatever the fire rating might say inside the door, Si?.

    12 gauge steel is something around 3/16" - which is NOT Heavy, and which IS pretty easy to cut through with either a cutting wheel, a plasma cutter, or even a sledgehammer (for a somewhat rough cut :) ).

    I would say that it is a better idea to buy one good safe, even one that is too small, or not big enough for rifles, and stack pistols in it. Put your most prescious things in it and hide the other stuff.

    Might even be a good idea to leave some sacrificial guns for thieves to take and be happy. That old Yugo milsurp Mauser 48 rifle that was $49.95, a couple of the cheapest handguns you have or can buy for the purpose. Make them easy to find and probably 50% of the crack driven burglars would be satisfied enough to escape and hopefully get busted later.
     
  17. krs

    krs Member

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    The "unibody construction" is a fairly recent addition to the promotional pitch.

    It must have greatly simplified safe construction and lowered the cost per item to be able to stamp out the bodies on an assembly line with a big sheetmetal stamping machine instead of having to weld plate steel together precisely and reliably with certifiable welds.

    Almost like making plastic shower enclosures - I wonder if the same machines can be used? :D
     
  18. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    It's better than that. This method is a direct result of them using very thin metals.

    If you have ever seen a machine that makes gutters, then you have seen a small version of what they use to make these safes.

    They will run the metal through the machine which bends the front of the frame. They then notch it out, and bend it into a square.

    Liberty used to show their machine in their video making a safe, and you could tell how thin the metals really were as the safe continued to flex back and forth after being bent.

    You're giving it too much credit. 12 gauge is roughly 1/10", and 10 gauge is roughly 1/8".
     
  19. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Trumpet;

    Ok, we've established that the body is light sheet metal, right? Now then, as A1abdj stated just above, the container can flex. So, move the thing and Murphy walks through the door. Literally in this case.

    If the body flexes, then in all probablility, the hinges will no longer be in alignment. That seriously compromises the door's ability to freely swing, if it'll swing at all. An internal hinge set is a right proper P-I-A to attempt to get back into square.

    It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen. And it happens more often & easier the lighter the body metal is. I will not accept a job to do that work. I have much better things to do with my time than fix internal hinge problems.

    And by the way, does anybody know of a locksmith that wants to work in central Montana for long hours, low pay and no benefits? I'm gonna retire sometime soon.

    900F
     
  20. HIcarry

    HIcarry Member

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    I was fortunate to speak with Frank (actually e-mail...) on several occasions when trying to figure out what safe to buy. The guy is a 100% stand up person...he was able to educate me about safes and help me decide what would work best for me. When I found what I wanted (combination of specs and price + shipping to Hawaii) I wanted to give Frank my business but he was quick to point out that the company I found had a deal on shipping that he couldn't match and suggested I purchase from them. Frank has a standing invitation for several free drinks should he ever make it over to Hawaii....
     
  21. UnitedSafesCorp

    UnitedSafesCorp Member

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    Here for any questions.

    Upon researching our web presence we found our safes being discussed here. We decided we would take the time to become a member of your fine forum and attempt to take on any questions you all may have.
     
  22. UnitedSafesCorp

    UnitedSafesCorp Member

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    Here for any questions.

    Upon researching our web presence we found our safes being discussed here. We decided we would take the time to become a member of your fine forum and attempt to take on any questions you all may have.
     
  23. krs

    krs Member

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    OK, fair enough.

    In looking over your website I notice that there are no specifications listed that define the guage of steel that is used in the safes you show, nor any information describing their construction, no fire or security ratings either claimed or certified by Underwwriter's Laboratories.

    Do you have such information available?

    How is that all of your gunsafes are sold as "blems" or damaged goods? Are they some sort of factory second, or do they have structural failings along with their mentioned cosmetic issues? If not, how would a prospective buyer know that?
     
  24. Trumpet

    Trumpet Member

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    I emailed you guys a week or so ago and never got a reply.


    FWIW, I went with the Zykan
     
  25. UnitedSafesCorp

    UnitedSafesCorp Member

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    Good Questions.

    KRS, Ok, here's the take on our current inventory to include the Vulcan Gun Safes. We bought out Vulcan and thier inventory. We took a chance and got what we got! Most all of the models surpassed our expectations. The Gun Safes can be closely compared to the Liberty Lincoln Series in design. They are 10 gauge door and body. They have the "vault" style bolts that run the full width of the door. As far as security ratings go, they are not ceritfied. They do have a standard Lagard Group II Combo or we can install a Lagard Basic Turn Style keypad both of which we all know are UL listed. They carry the manufacturers fire label 45 mins @ 1200°F. Like I stated, when we bought them out we got what we got. The blemishes are purely cosmetic. They are so minor we could easily sell them without advertising it but it is easier just to do so and clearance this inventory and make room for more. The worst that I have seen is on one of the high gloss models, it looks as if someone was sweeping when it was drying and it had dust in the clear coat in spots, that is the worst and I've only seen one that bad.

    Overall I like the safes, we actually have a Liberty Safe and a Diamond Back "L" and "H" series safe here and if had to pick it would be between the DB and ours. Simply because they are half the price and offer most of the same features.

    Trumpet, I will assume you went with the Diamond Back, no hard feelings, they are good safes.

    We will be more than happy to continue answering questions here or privately.
    [email protected]
    www.unitedsafescorporation.com

    We are actually going to try and add a link to this forum on our blog.
    Lots and lots of good information on this fourm!
     
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