VZ.58 Club:

[cchiang1]

killertom:
A pic would be great, if only for educational purposes. Since the rail was originally designed for Soviet(?) NV equipment, are aftermarket "regular" scope mounts available for that rail, or can scopes be adapted to fit on the original NV mount (if its even available?). Thanks.

Cary

 

[killertom]

I'll do a pic tomorrow. The rail was originally designed for the NSP-2 infra sight, which was in turn originally designed for the Dragunov. So supposedly, the rail on the Vz. 58Pi is the same as that on the Dragunov. I'm not sure about the availability of SVD scope mounts, or aftermarket mounts made to fit the Dragunov rails, but it would be nice to add a red dot or holo sight to the Vz. someday...

 

[Bennybone]

Results from todays Hornady Ammo test with NCstar scope mounted on rear receiver side rail mount.

50 yards - This is what I am after !!!



100 yards - Average grouping with optics. I am sure it is going to be up to me to get smaller groups.



Next will be experimentation with reloading to attempt to develop a consistent accurate load, I will set the bar high and say that all shots should be touching at 50 yards...

Also a guy in another forum "slugged" his VZ2008 barrel and came up with .308 in diameter - I will attempt to do this as well , that would open up the bullet choice department BIG TIME!

BB

 

[Maverick223]

Welcome to the club, killertom! My family originally descended from Hungary (long ago I was told, by my grandfather, that my forefathers were Hungarian potato farmers...how true that is I'll likely never know). Looks like a neat rifle, I would definitely try a SVD optic (best to try before buying to ensure that ejection won't become an issue) if given the opportunity. They are a bit on the hefty side (particularly when placed on such a svelte/trim carbine as the VZ), but easily removed and would seemingly be useful for longer ranges.

Bennybone, happy to hear that yours is printing a bit better. IIRC the early CAI manufactured VZ clones had a .308cal. bbl, and that caused all sorts of accuracy issues (amongst other problems), but I believe they changed to a properly finished bbl diameter (along with fixing receiver issues) when they started producing them on better quality receivers.

 

[cchiang1]

Okay, I'm don't know much about this subject, but I've always heard 7.62 and .308 used interchangeably. Someone please give me the true measurements! Thanks.

Cary

 

[Maverick223]

Cary, 7.62NATO (< this little detail is more important than one might be led to believe) and .308Winchester is essentially the same despite testing standards and brass thickness (both of which can entail variances depending upon the use of the cartridge, be it for sniper, general MG issue, hunting use, or use in de-milled (once FA) surplus arms). 7.62x39mm "Commie" is not interchangeable and has quite a bit less case capacity than the aforementioned cartridges. The 7.62x39mm is best compared to the .30-30WCF, whereas the 7.62NATO is most similar to the 7.62x54R/.303Brit./8mmMauser/pre-1945 .30-06Spd. (modern specifications are loaded to much higher pressures).

Hope this serves to help rather than further confuse...this is a common misconception, and deserves a well thought-out (non-3AM EST answer).

 

[killertom]

Hi Maverick,

There are lots of people of Hungarian descent in the U.S., supposedly almost a million. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them... Thanks for the welcome!

Cary, I've attached a pic of the rail as promised.

 

[ifit]

well said maverick, yesterday pulled some bullets as i was also curious on these 7.62 variants.
left=7.62x54r/147gr fmj surplus, measures at .312"
middle=7.62x51/135 gr,hp berger measures at .308"
right=7.62x39/123gr brown bear,russian measures at .310"

 

[Maverick223]

killertom, that is an interesting rail. I surmise that it was placed in the rearward position to ensure that the ejecting brass wouldn't cause stoppages and/or damage the optics, as well as hamper loading properly utilizing stripper clips.

ifit, good point...forgot to mention the discrepancy in bullet diameter amongst the various .30cal/7.62mm cartridges. You listed one of each of the major three categories: .308-309 (most modern US/W. European arms use this), .310 (Soviet caliber, almost exclusively used in the 7.62x39mm), and .311-312 (British originated caliber used in the .303Brit. and many others including the 7.62x54R, 7.7Arisaka and most ".32caliber" pistol cartridges).

 

[killertom]

Yup, pretty interesting that it's situated that far back. It doesn't interfere with the cheek weld though.

On the other hand, it looks like I'm gonna need some help. After taking it home, I decided to clean the rifle just lightly, since it has been test fired with corrosive milsurp most likely and not cleaned. So I scrubbed the bore, then sprayed some ballistol in the gas port, and flushed it out with compressed air. 2-3 hours later, I could see some very light rust forming near the muzzle. So I went at it with a bronze brush and ballistol, and managed to get most of it out, but there are two lines on the edges of one of the lands, that just won't come out! I scrubbed at least 50 times with the bronze brush with generous amounts of ballistol, but it's still there. I'm starting to think it might be copper fouling and that's why it won't come off by scrubbing, but it definitely has a dark reddish-brown color. I've stopped scrubbing it, because I don't want to be to hard on the barrel, so any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[killertom]

Ah, bad luck. While trying to remove those two streaks looking like rust I used a shorter pistol rod for more leverage, but I had to reverse the bronze brush inside the bore a couple times. All this before I read, that supposedly this can damage the barrel. So, what's the truth here? Is it possible I caused undue wear inside the bore of my new rifle where I reversed the bronze brush a couple times?

 

[Maverick223]

Yes and no, reversing the brush isn't so much the problem (though I would hesitate to do so with a precision rifle or benchrest rig), the discernible problems arise when you start nicking the muzzle as you push it back and forth. This can cause significant accuracy issues. Additionally it is very hard on the brush and will cause premature wear and breakage. In short, you probably haven't damaged anything thus far (particularly if you are just working the very end of the bbl), but it would probably be best to quit while you're ahead. In all likelihood the streaks you see are copper fouling and not rust (which often appears various shades of brown/orange and can exhibit a modest sheen or be fairly shiny depending upon the bbl materials and finish). I would give it a good soaking with a effective copper solvent. I don't know what you have available there, but I use KG-12, Butch's Bore Shine, and Hoppes No. 9 Benchrest and all work well (I have them listed roughly in order of preference).

Just keep in mind that you have a military rifle with a hard-chromed bore...it's somewhat hard to damage (a soldier, be it Czech or USGI, can do some mighty harsh things to an issued bit of kit)...but not entirely impossible. It's probably been through worse.

 

[rocinante]

tom take it out shoot it. My FN49 barrel was very rusty and l did a good attempt to clean up but after sending some rounds down range it looked a lot better. Accurate too.

A trick if you have to shoot corrosive ammo is before you end your trip shoot some non corrosive rounds. It will clean you up some.

 

[killertom]

Hi Maverick,

Even though I was pretty hard on the poor thing I at least had the sense to use a bore guide, so the crown is perfect. I'm worried about the inside, damage to the lands, maybe to the chrome plating? Scratching and similar stuff?
I feel like a total idiot, I've been around firearms my entire adult life, and I'm still capable of pulling stuff like this. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Rocinante,

Thanks, that's exactly what I'm gonna do on saturday.

 

[Maverick223]

I at least had the sense to use a bore guide, so the crown is perfect.

That, sir, is the important part, and something that most folks neglect to do. The use of a muzzle or bore guide will prevent 99% of damage from cleaning. Your chrome lining (and everything else) should be just fine.

 

[killertom]

Thank you, I feel better already. Still a bit angry at myself for not being more careful, but what's done is done. I just have to wrap my head around the fact that this is a surplus gun, not brand new, and so even if I see some small imperfections in the bore here and there I probably didn't cause them. I'll have to see how it shoots tomorrow.

 

[Maverick223]

No problem, Tom; glad I was able to ease your mind a bit. Definitely update us with a performance review after it's debut.

 

[killertom]

Will do, tomorrow's the big day. Forecast predicts rain though, but I've got a feeling weather forecast is just guessing. Every time they are right they have their egos up high, but every time they're wrong they just shrug and say "the weather is a very unpredicable thing". We'll see

 

[killertom]

So, had a firing test with the Vz.58 on sunday, all is well, cycled perfectly and is plenty accurate (although I could only pop off 29 rounds offhand at 25 meters due to a heavy rain).

I have a question on bore solvents though, has anyone have experience with Remington Brite Bore? Does it damage the blueing if it spills on the external parts of the gun?

Thanks!
Tom

 

[Maverick223]

Never used it, but I believe it is similar to Hoppes No. 9 BR. I seriously doubt that it would damage a salt blue (which most Vz.58s don't have). I wouldn't be surprised if it damaged a painted finish, but not a baked on hard coat like the D.Technik and military builds use (they use something like Duracoat). If that is what you intend to use, it would be advisable to test in a hidden area (like under the furniture) first just to be certain.

 

[killertom]

Thanks! Reading about it on the internet, seems like it isn't much use on copper fouling. So I went out and bought Shooter's Choice Aqua Clean bore cleaner. It was really expensive for a cleaner, so it better be worth it!

 

[Maverick223]

If that doesn't work out (no experience there either) pick up some KG-12. It picks up copper really well (but does poorly for cleaning other forms of fouling so a "pre-cleaner" is requisite), but is pretty gentle on finishes and bore surfaces.

 

[sizzle]

Hey whats up guys.. new to the club . I got a lot of inspiration from this forum to improve my vz 58 a little bit.. so I thank you all for that .. I have a CIA VZ2800 and I love it.. No problems with over 2000 rds ... except my henge to my side folder is loose. originally when I bought it though it was loose so I didn't think much of it and I have been ignoring it since but now its becoming a pain my ass. I can feel it my shoulder moving so it is ruining my ability to shoot accurately. Are there any fixes for this maybe? or should I replace the whole thing and maybe try a different folder? I was thinking a m4 folding style push stock.. post a link if you guys know where to get one for it.. thanks guys

 

[Maverick223]

Welcome to the club and THR, sizzle!

My folder was a little loose on mine too. Fortunately it was only the (massive) bolt that needed tightened. After snugging it up a bit it is as tight as a AICS folder (which is to say: very good). The folder is designed to "self tighten" to compensate for wear, but if yours isn't simply a hardware issue it might be time for replacement parts or a new stock altogether. Personally I really like the original folder but there are several others to choose from...original stocks (both folding and fixed), aftermarket replacements, and adapters (for Ace and AR style stocks) are available from Czechpoint.

Here are a couple parts that should fix the folder that you already have (if it isn't simply a loose mounting bolt): Hinge Pin (likely culprit) & Hinge Bracket (may not be necessary)

 

[cbr954fz1]

czech point states that when using the m4 butt stock its best to use optics w/it because the check rest is higher than the original butt stock...might want to consider that too before spending all that $$$ verses the stock butt stock..just a thought..cbr

ok update i finally built my 2 vz58's and test fired them and its all good..first was built on a rare grand powers 10rd rec(only 100 imported) and the second was built on a ORF rec..sorry no pic's yet and yeh got my 3rd kit in also..but i did buy a vz2008 for the heck of it. hehe...now i gotta invest in ammo..