VZ.58 Club:

[armoredman]

Cheesy youtube video with some vz-58 pictures s in it, just still pics to music, my very first video attempt. Next time I get to the range with the GOOD camera I'll get some real video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irBlo1qmLEQ&feature=plcp

 

[barnbwt]

It looks like "barrel extensions" and "muzzle attachments" are on the list of 922r trinkets, is the tacked-on D-technik extension/break countable, or is it considered part of the Czech-made barrel? I also saw "hammer" on the list, I'm not sure if strikers are counted as well, or if anyone makes them in the US, either.

922r really screws us on this rifle, since there are so fewer parts than an AK . How do we prove little stuff like the trigger is US made, anyway, do they come engraved, or do we just have to keep paperwork/receipts in the gun case as proof?

TCB

 

[Maverick223]

It looks like "barrel extensions" and "muzzle attachments" are on the list of 922r trinkets, is the tacked-on D-technik extension/break countable, or is it considered part of the Czech-made barrel?

I believe the brake is counted whether it is welded or not, but if I'm not mistaken the factory installed extension is not a counted part. One thing to remember is that the parts count is based on the maximum number of foreign manufactured parts, not the parts replaced, so adding a part will not improve your compliance (& is detrimental if not US made).

I also saw "hammer" on the list, I'm not sure if strikers are counted as well, or if anyone makes them in the US, either.

They are probably calling the striker the hammer, however I have never heard of a US made one.

How do we prove little stuff like the trigger is US made, anyway, do they come engraved, or do we just have to keep paperwork/receipts in the gun case as proof?

They are typically stamped/forged "US" or the like.

 

[armoredman]

ObiWanBonJovi at czfirearms.us runs a place called Bonesteel Arms, and he produces excellent vz-58 parts fully stamped with Made in the US on them.

Also, the CzechpointUSA barrel is welded with a barrel extension due to the fact that it is an original Czech military 15 inch barrel, and must be lengthened for US import. The Century barrel is a US made product, which is why it is over the 16 inch limit and can use other flash hiders, etc. The exception to this is the CzechpointUSA 5.56 standard capacity version has a removable flash hider with a correct length barrel.

 

[JohnnyK]

Range report

well, I took my VZ 2008 out for the first time today and it did well... the first shot didn't reset properly and I was hoping that wasn't a bad sign but that was the only hiccup... I ran 5 mags thru her really fast at a tactical rifle class... baptism by fire... and they all went smooth... the irons were pretty accurate out of the box. my only complaint was that the front handguards got way too HOT way too fast... I couldn't shoot more than 2 mags without letting it cool off... not a big deal for shooting from a bench but I'll need to upgrade handguards to play with mag dumps at tactical rifle classes... what to do, I love the look of the stock laminated wood but not much relief from the heat... does this become a wall ornament or tacticool project?

 

[cchiang1]

Re: Range report

JohnnyK:
One way I've found to keep the original lower hand guard cool is to line it with one layer of automotive exhaust manifold wrap. I held mine in place with two small bolts & flat washers, which were also used to mount a 5-6 inch length of picatinny rail underneath for a vertical hand grip. I've only tested it once (I don't usually do mag dumps) with about 40 rounds rapid fire, and my lower hand guard remained cool, while the upper heat shield without a hand guard installed was uncomfortable to touch for more than a moment.

I'm in the process of returning my VZ 2008 to Century for warranty work to correct an intermittent reset or "gremlin" issue. The customer service rep informed me that they have not had any complete rifles in stock for warranty exchange or sale for quite some time, and only "some" parts remained in inventory for repair work. If you bought your rifle new, I suggest that you test it out thoroughly soon, in case you need to have warranty work done. Once the parts are gone, Century can only offer you a sales credit for another rifle or parts/accessories. Where in Texas are you located?

Cary

 

[JohnnyK]

thanks for the info Cary. I'm in Katy, Tx... 1st city west of Houston... I just bought it and it works fine... I'll be testing it again soon to fine tune the irons.. do you have any pics of your modifications to the hand guards so I can fully understand what you did and how you attached it? thanks, Johnny... what part of TX you live in?

 

[barnbwt]

Okay, guys, I need some quick advice here:
I ordered a VZ from Czechpoint last week, and I'm waiting for that to process now. Wouldn't you know it, my LGS just happens to get on in stock this week (it's like they're watching me ). I'm picking up my FN49 (looks awesome at first glance, btw) and see this "mini-AK" with a damn drum on it on the rack

It's a used D-Technik VZ-58 with the original pinned on muzzle extension, polymer folder. It comes with "a box of mags" and a modified AK drum (may or may not work, I hear they're picky). I didn't break it down too far, but the gas piston is shiny and clean. Since Czechpoint has a 4 week or so backlog on orders these days, I'm sorely tempted by this deal. The drum's typically go for over 150$ new, and I will pay 850$ for my "factory new" VZ with 2 mags. The finish on the gun looks to be in decent shape, a couple dings in the black paint below the ejection port was about it. Folder locks up tight, sights are straight, no CAI marking , etc. They want 920$ for it, and are unlikely to be talked down. I should be able to cancel the Czechpoint order at this point if it's worth it.

Deal or no, I was elated to finally hold one of these things. They are so much handier than an AK, especially with the folding stock. Almost like a submachine gun. This thing felt almost dinky, like M1 Carbine dinky, with the drum still attached! Very cool. The "stock" is uncomfortable, I imagine moreso when it's bashing your chin under recoil, but it's very well made; I wouldn't want to get clobbered with one. I've held AKs with drums on them before, and I have to say the "concept" (if you really want to try justifying it) seems to work much better on the VZ. Seems more like what the PPSH was going for.

I don't imagine the VZ will hang around there long (granted, the 900$ SVT-40 with no import marks is still there...I don't know why they have so much cool stuff all of a sudden) so I'd appreciate any opinions ya'll have on whether this is a fair deal or not. Again, either way, I'm somehow even more psyched about this gun! This will be the last (and I'm not kidding here) gun I'll be able to fit in my little safe

TCB

 

[armoredman]

If it's the drum mag that Bonesteel makes, snag it. If it's a D-Technik, it won't have CAI markings - it's a Czechpoint.
It's used, the one you ordered is new, and Bonesteel still makes the mags. Your money, your call, willing to hazard a small bet you'll be happy either way.

 

[barnbwt]

Yeah, a D-technik isn't supposed to have a CAI marking...

But I've seen a few "Gen-you-ine" DT VZ-58's online (at DT prices) with obvious bayonet lugs and slant-breaks. Wolves masquerading in (more expensive) wolfs' clothing . The CAI guns are good, but not good enough to shell out for a Czechpoint .

I also need to check if the gun is within 5-year warranty since I understand it's transferrable. That's the matter I'm most interested in, actually. I would imagine, that under normal use, most warranty matters occur within the first several hundred shots. If there's even a year left on the warranty, I'll have plenty of time to work out any kinks with Czechpoint.

The drum is just some fun icing on the cake. I've never been into that level of tacticoolery, but I was impressed that it still handled (not well, but ya-know...). I'd probably load it up and empty it once, get bored with how tedious that process surely is, and sell the thing right before the election . They go for over 150$ new, right? I see the drum as a 100$ coupon off the rest of the deal . Can you reload the drum with strippers?

The extra mags are the real deal sweetener for me. If the "box of mags" refers to two dozen, or something, that's some real money I could be saving. Especially if they are all 922r compliant, that will save me some slight headaches.

Are the Czechpoints supposed to be painted? I was under the impression they were black-parkerized. This job definitely had something enamel-like in consistency applied to it, but not bad enough to fill in stampings. I suppose this gun could be a (fairly good) Duracoat job someone did .

920$ -100$(drum) -17$x(# of mags) = used gun (w/ warranty?)
vs.
869$ -17$x(2 mags) -accessories(sling, cleaning kit, etc.) = factory new/warrantied

Who says math isn't fun?

TCB

 

[snakeman]

what kind of groups are you guys getting at 100 yards?

 

[Maverick223]

The drum is just some fun icing on the cake. I've never been into that level of tacticoolery, but I was impressed that it still handled (not well, but ya-know...).

I don't know that i would buy it just for the drum (and I doubt the "box of mags" is anything more than a field pack of 4 in a leather case), but if you do I'd like the first shot at it (assuming that it works correctly), as I'd like to have one to play with but am unwilling to pay the $150 that Bonesteel wants.

Are the Czechpoints supposed to be painted? I was under the impression they were black-parkerized. This job definitely had something enamel-like in consistency applied to it, but not bad enough to fill in stampings.

The finish is correct. It is something akin to Duracoat, and while reasonably tough, not my favorite for aesthetics.

what kind of groups are you guys getting at 100 yards?

Near MOA with handloads and premium ammo (if I do my job), around 2.0 MOA with standard fodder (not Tula or Wolf).

 

[armoredman]

I'm not that good.

When I first got mine,



Before Accurate updated their load data,



Added an EOTech,



Kneeling at 100 yards, worked good enough for me.



But then again, I've never been a fantastic rifle shot. This is the best I've done SO FAR at 200 yards, individual groups are marked by markings on the tape covering the holes.

 

[Maverick223]

I'm not that good.

I'm not typically that good with open sights either, but with a good rest and a little concentration that's what mine will do (and it's repeatable, not an isolated event). FWIW my best load is a Hornady V-Max with H-335. That said, I mostly shoot Barnaul which will get me about 2.0MOA, which is good enough (not to mention easier and cheaper).

 

[ifit]

for us vz58 owners....must watch, especially by the end of the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkPPGKqebJE

 

[armoredman]

Yep, you get to see some of these beauties in full auto...regrettably, mine does NOT have the happy switch, not legal here yet.

 

[barnbwt]

Yeah, I'm here too, now...



For the record, all of you guys were right about these rifles, I found the research I did on this forum to be right in line with what I experienced at the range today

*one of us, one of us...*

TCB

(Rifle's a Waffen Werks import, BTW. Anybody have an idea when these were imported?)

 

[Maverick223]

Welcome to the club! You have to let us know how well that drum works for you (any markings on it...Bonesteel?).

 

[barnbwt]

I have a review of the VZ 58 posted nearby:
Fun at the Range With the VZ 58

The drum (or me) is having teething issues thus far, bullets aren't getting high enough up before feeding and get smashed against the magwell and hang up the bolt (is there a name for this misfeed?) My .22LR MP161K does the same thing with certain ammo's. It's so consistent that I'm convinced it's something obvious I'm doing wrong. Shooting fully supported (both arms) seems to fix the problem, so I'm also thinking the rounds are jiggling under recoil and getting misaligned. I hate to admit it, but when it works, it's really fun (but stupid ;o).

The drum is probably a Bonesteel mod, since I don't think anyone else does them. I called Chris, and Bonesteel apparently doesn't mark their mags with a logo, so there's no certain way to tell. He said they had done mods to a lot of the "American Tactial" import drums like I have though. The interface of the drum and magwell is great, snug, and almost no shake. Better than factory mags, in mine. I don't think the mag lips are messed with as part of the mod, so I hold Bonesteel "innocent" as far as my misfeeds. I imagine it's highly dependant on whether the drum worked right before the mod in the first place. I've heard these drums have always been finnicky.

If I get bored playing with it, I can always sell it (with disclaimer) and get a chunk of my entrance fee back. The factory mags were flawless (of course). One thing of note; the steel folder is about an inch shy of being able to fold over the drum, instead it hits the side. A slightly longer metal stock, besides being a better fit (for me), would enable a true spectacle of bump-firing Redneckery (for folks who're into that sort of thing)

TCB

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks for the review, TCB.

 

[NWCP]

Zahal makes some really nice aftermarket pieces for the VZ58. Make sure you get a D- Technik receiver, or better yet but through Czechpoint USA. It's a fine rifle out to100-200 yards. It's lightweight and reliable. I can see why it's still in service.

 

[Bohemus]

More news: Plastic mags to be available soon (in case you want to use google translator, set Slovak language)
It realy irks me that army didnt care about the rifle for about 50 years and all improvements are done by fans nowadays.

 

[armoredman]

Trying to read the "translation" made my eyes hurt. That sort of looks like the magazines made by CSA in the Czech Republic. Here's some for the 5.56mm model, not yet cataloged for sale.

Czech out the caliber markings - apparently .222 is a popular cartridge in Europe.



They seem to be pretty well made and sturdy.. I need to dismount my AR magwell adapter and try these out...but the AR magwell works so well, I can't yet make myself do that!

 

[Maverick223]

More news: Plastic mags to be available soon

Looking at those magazines, they look a lot like a Tapco. Not that there aren't good copies out there (like PMags), but I prefer a polymer magazine with a steel feedlip (like the Lancer L-5), as they are a bit more durable. For the foreseeable future (at least until there are a few reviews) I think I'll stick to the OEM Al. magazines unless they bribe me by releasing 20s.

apparently .222 is a popular cartridge in Europe.

I don't really know why (restrictions on military chamberings perhaps), but it is.

 

[armoredman]

They're stamped "Czech Small Arms"; I doubt they're made by TAPCO, but stranger things have happened.