Wait to submit CPL Application is 7 months! Need alternative.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by aaaaa, Jun 19, 2022.

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  1. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    So in Wayne County, Michigan, I just went online with the county clerk's office to make an appointment to submit my CPL application and discovered the first available appointment is 26 January 2023--7 months out! That has to be a violation of the legal requirement for "shall issue." I see a news article from two years ago where the wait was 9 months and they said people were just carrying anyway because of the long wait.
    https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/concealed-pistol-license-wait-is-9-months-long-in-wayne-county
    Neighboring Oakland County was about 3 weeks out at that time, and I just looked on their website and see that if I was an Oakland County resident, I could have an appointment tomorrow! But Oakland County will not issue to non-residents Something is seriously wrong with my county.

    So, I am thinking I should try to get a CPL from some other state that Michigan recognizes in reciprocity and just use that instead. Some of the states will issue a CPL to non-residents:
    https://handgunlaw.us/documents/NonResidentPermits.pdf
     
  2. The Glockodile

    The Glockodile Member

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    The typical problem with these booking systems is that they actually have a HUGE number of no - shows / wasted slots.

    Those who do call in to notify folks of the cancellation usually get their slot "refreshed" by the software at 12MN - they advised me to check for slots at said time.

    Or so the Sheriff's Office tells me, in my county...
     
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  3. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    My instructor for the training class said that sometimes there are cancellations and so appointments will be moved up, so to keep checking back. This sucks though. The state law says,

    "Sec. 5b. (1) To obtain a license to carry a concealed pistol, an individual shall apply to the concealed weapon licensing board in the county in which that individual resides for a license to carry a concealed pistol. The application shall be filed with the county clerk as clerk of the concealed weapon licensing board during the county clerk’s normal business hours."

    What they are doing seems wholly illegal, but what am I going to do, hire a lawyer? I will have to look at the other states while I wait. If only I could go to another county, i would have it submitted this week. Besides that, it is another 45 days after you submit the application.
     
  4. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    It really looks like they just want to deny the right to carry. This article quotes,

    https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/lawsuit-filed-against-wayne-county-clerks-office-over-cpl-appointment-backlog

    They used to have a second clerk office in the western part of the county (main one is eastern part in downtown Detroit), but that one was closed.
     
  5. Idahou

    Idahou Member

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    In my town, average wait time for every gun related administrative was like 3-4x longer than in other towns. Mostly because lack of personal in combination with covid restriction (in summer while everywhere else it was already lifted)... It sucks but...
    Also in my country are these things managed by Police so process times changes, because its ussually done by cops witch arent fit for regular duty (injuries, some sort of leaves, age...)

    Btw, it took me about year and few months just to get gun licence (to even get first gun) because connected administrative issues and long wait for examps in first wave of covid - ussually it took one week
     
  6. DTL

    DTL Member

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    Some states that recognize out of state licenses do not accept them from non-residents of the issuing state.
     
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  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Fl- Okaloosa County
     
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  8. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

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    That won’t help you. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits.

    https://handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

    Michigan Does Not Honor Non-Resident Permits/Licenses. You must be a resident of the state that issued your Permit/License for that Permit/License to be valid in Michigan.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2022
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  9. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    I can make an appointment with the county clerk for a marriage licence, death certificate, or notary and it will be as early as July 26. For some reason birth certificates and death certificates are pushed back to September 9. The whole thing is a sham, and they require an 8-hour pistol safety course which was (for me) rather a joke because I learned nothing new except the instructor said in Texas you can shoot someone just for stealing your stuff, which I find a bit hard to believe. The instructor never even stated the most basic thing, that all guns are treated as loaded. When I asked him about not using reloads for self defense he had no idea what that was about.

    Maybe I should move--preferably to a constitutional carry state. I think Ohio just went constitutional carry and the border is only 60 miles from where I now live. Or move to a nearby county. Makes no sense I have to apply for a state license through my county. There should be an option to do direct to the state for this. It also seems the people who sued the county must not have gotten very far as I don't see anything beyond 2021 articles on that. Apparently for a while they were not even processing renewals, which are done online.

    Maybe I should make an appointment for the notary in July and submit the application with a set of fingerprints. I have the option of getting the fingerprints elsewhere. Then go in with the prints and application and have it notarized. Still have to take the oath, so they probably will refuse. This is pretty clear to me, they want to hinder people getting a CPL.

    There is always open carry but that is a bad idea for a number of reasons including that I would have to unload the gun and store it in the trunk every time I get into the car, and that is a prime time for a perp to attack, so dumb dumb dumb. Open carry is allowed but considered concealed as soon as I am in the car since nobody can see it. Maybe if I hold it out the window for all to see?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2022
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  10. dh1633pm
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    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    I feel for you. In NY I waited 18 months just to submit my application. Would have been longer except I checked daily for available appointments. Scarfed an early one. Had to be finger printed twice.
     
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  11. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    Yeah, I am going to check the appointment list daily. Also going to call their office and see if they can deal with this on a notary appointment if I bring in the prints.
     
  12. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    Sorry to hear of your extreme wait and hassles. Glad to hear that you have some gun rights in Czech Republic.
     
  13. Idahou

    Idahou Member

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    Its ok now and it works like "5 minutes and its done" = im armed to the teeth and shooting regulary. Just wanted to share to easy your pain little bit :D
     
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  14. HOWARD J

    HOWARD J Member

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    There is a reason why guns are not liked in Wayne county. Don't ask me why.
     
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  15. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    Yeah, and a reason why many are carrying without a permit:
    https://www.wxyz.com/news/public-defenders-wants-ccw-cases-dismissed-in-wayne-county
     
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  16. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    Ignorant a-holes like this misinstructor should have to share in the prison sentence of anyone who gets convicted of following their advice....
     
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  17. Alte Schule

    Alte Schule Member

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    Sorry to hear that OP. Texas went through growing pains for about 20 plus years after licensed concealed carry became the law.
    Consritiomal carry now although they still offer permits for those that travel out of state or want to forgo the background check when buying a firearm.
     
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  18. Demi-human
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    Demi-human maybe likes firearms a little bit…

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    Unfortunately this happens with mandatory classes. Low cost “classes” that are little more than scams by that loud mouth down at the gun shop. I think sometimes that some would be better off without them, except I saw some of the others in the class with me.:eek:
    I was lucky enough to have a great instructor, a detective and response team member. Everyone should take a class like that, at the five good hours it would take. Not the eight mandated. It was hot and a struggle at the end.
    Everyone was done and the questions were over, but fourty minutes were left. The instructor looked like he was done but his over exuberant assistant kept saying “half hour left, boss. Twenty left, boss. Five left, boss.” I think it was his count down that was killing me.:D
     
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  19. jrmiddleton425

    jrmiddleton425 Member

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    Your alternative appears to be that you can move out of Detroit.

    As inconvenient as New York's process is, once you have completed the application, you can walk into the office and submit it.
     
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  20. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    In case I mis represent, he may have meant only if they are stealing from your homestead. His example is someone is in your garage stealing your weed whip you can shoot them. I would never do that because it crosses a moral line. We only shoot to protect ourselves or others from serious bodily harm or death, not for a piddly weed whip or even a car. I learned a lot more reading Massad Ayoob books and watching his videos as well as some other instructors including the videos at USCCA.
     
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  21. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    I feel your pain and sympathize with your plight. You are in Michigan so Michigan laws will apply. Yes, here in Ohio a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) law came about in 2004. As of a few says ago Ohio joined 23 other states with constitutional carry. However, when the change in Washington DC took place CHL licensing got backed up. Toss in COVID and the wait just to get into a sheriff's office was 7 months. The way it worked here was you needed a sheriffs department in your county of residence or an adjacent county. I had friends in the Cleveland, Ohio suburbs and any adjacent county also had a 7 month wait. People who took the course were screwed on all fronts literally. People were also screaming at the state attorney general to no avail. Now with constitutional carry if anyone plans to carry in a state with reciprocal laws you still need an Ohio CHL.

    On another note years ago the CHL course was I believe 12 hours over two days of course. This included a handgun proficiency test on a range. We had to learn mostly state laws and be proficient. Today the course is about 8 hours and no laws which is weird. The course is instruction in handguns using a NRA booklet. A CHL is good for 5 years before one must renew and on renewal they apparently run another background check.

    Anyway all this matters not. Ohio will not issue a CHL to a non resident and I believe you will find this to be true of any state. Sorrowfully you are in Michigan so Michigan laws apply. I have watched countless people suffer what you are faced with. Things are now greatly improved. I have a friend who took the course and took his certificate to the sheriff's department and was issued his CHL within a hour. As easy as getting a driver's license.

    Ohio also has stand your ground laws but that is another story.

    Ron
     
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  22. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    Still inaccurate.
     
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  23. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    Yep, I will discount anything he said. Always have to look up current state laws before visiting, and of course, get to know my own state's laws.
     
  24. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    I am already checking out my open carry holster. I have an IWB holster that effectively can be worn outside the wast band and inside my belt so it is in full view. It was purchased for the big L frame 686+ and that one looks really nice in there, but the J-frame is less conspicuous in the open holster, so probably will use that. Holster is black and my pants are almost always navy blue so it will not be very noticeable. If someone calls the cops I will explain to them that while I am not an advocate of open carry, the county's foot dragging has led me to it as my only choice. Of course I have to unload it and store it in the back of the van every time I get in because it is suddenly concealed carry if I get in the car with it loaded. But I will take it maybe for walking the dog at the park, probably not shopping as too many people around to get freaked out. We'll see, wife may be freaked out at the idea and then it is probably not going to be the best idea. Moving out of Wayne County is the best idea, just that I have so much junk in this house.
     
  25. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    Where did you get that cockamamie idea?
     
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