Quantcast

Wal-Mart security kills man who stole BB Gun and diapers

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by P95loser, Aug 19, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. docfubar

    docfubar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Tooele Utah
    All Walmart LP's need to havefour elements on making anuy stop: Selection, concealment, observation, and exit. Walmart LP's can NOT stop some one until they are putting their foot outside the door. That is policy, but because of that we are to have a witness with us and they encourage us to have a couple of people with us because a show of force hopefully will stop a suspect from being combative.

    I am a Walmart LP. I have made stops on people shoplifting. I have never hurt someone trying to steal. Walmart has a good training plan and to carrry cuffs you need to be certified by a LEO. Even though I am California POST certified I don't carry cuffs. Why I don't want the headache.

    Accordingto the article the LP's in question screwed up. They had a responsiblity to detain and protect the suspect until turned over to law enforcement. If the suspect complains of medical problems then EMS should be called.

    I don't condone their actions in the least bit but those 5 are the ones that should be held accountable but in this sue happy nation we live in Walmart and all the shareholders will be held responsible, not the Waltons.
     
  2. Buck Snort

    Buck Snort Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    N. CA.
    For the record. There is a member of the Walton family living in some little hamlet in Arkansas, she's worth some $18bil. She "sponsors" a pre-school!! Hey, noblese-oblige lives!! This fat criminal's family will profit handily from his misdeeds!! Life goes on. Geeze, why didn't my WIFE steal some diapers when she was at Wal-Mart today!!
     
  3. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,477
    Location:
    Seattle
    Actually, that does mean that its ok to treat him like ????

    He's a criminal, we treat criminals poorly so that people dont want to continue being criminals. People like this are a blight on society and we have no only a right but an obligation to keep them under control.

    Now that doesnt mean that this guy should have been killed. But it does mean that he should have been chased and arrested for being a thief. The people who aprehended him made an honest mistake. The whole situation never happens if some worthless thief decides not to steal other people's property in the first place.
     
  4. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,433
    Location:
    North Central Florida and Miami Florida
    Wally World would not need all those vicious 'loss prevention' troopies were it not for folks like this perp.
    The family always says 'he was such a good boy'.
    And the lawyer did not even have to chase the ambulance that time :)
     
  5. TaxPhd

    TaxPhd Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Montana
    "He said one of the men had Driver in a chokehold and had his knee in the back of his neck."

    I know a little about choke holds from playing Judo for most of my life. I guess this is possible, but not very likely. A choke hold with your knee in the back of the neck??

    It hurts the credability of the report.

    I would like to read more about what actually happened before coming to a conclusion.




    Scott
     
  6. Shweboner

    Shweboner Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    Newberg, OR
    I work at a retail store, and Loss Prevention in retail generally seems to be "itching" to "take someone down", they can be very brutal because apprehention situations are so few and far between. The security guards were probably ill-trained promoted cashiers who yearn to use their power...


    Thats probably not too far from the truth. I used to be a manager at a large retail store, I wont name names, but they used to have a 'softer side' and now offer 'the good life'

    anyhow, I managed about 35 cashiers. I hired a bunch of new ones for seasonal work. I left the job in March. One of the guys I hired, and ended up letting go because he basically sucked. I came back into the store a few months later and this guy was working LP!!!!!! HOLY CRAP

    They actually rehired this loser as LP after he failed at being a lowly cashier!

    :what: oh yeah and these guys make MAYBE $1 over min. wage.

    but knowing WalMart, they probably make <min. wage
     
  7. t driver

    t driver Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    central Illinois
    Many things about this are going through my mind. I probably shoudn't add my comments, but can't help myself. ;)

    The inital story leaves out way too much information. Based on societies current views, The information offered is too vague.

    The following is strictly my thoughts and opinions.

    The guy chose to: 1)steal what was not rightfully his. 2) refuse to cooperate with store security. 3) Get into a physical confrontation.
    My opinion is he got what he earned. NOtice I said earned, not deserved.
    That a "high profile" atty. saw it, or the pavement was a million degrees doesn't really matter.

    As for penalty definitions. ("He didn't deserve this") There are always variables. i.e. The fine for petty theft may be $500. He died. While fitting the punishment to the crime or "proving" guilt is a noble idea. That part of it assumes he makes it to court. Getting there safely is his responsibility as much or more than his detainers responsibility. That means he must offer some cooperation.
    Bottom line he was still a criminal.

    I am shocked at the contempt for store security shown here. While some of these folks are much better at it than others, these folks have a job to do. It is always best to cooperate and let them do their job as quickly and easily as possible. Would I be offended if I was approached or wrongly detained? Absolutely. Would I put up a fight or make a scene? Absolutely NOT. Again, they are trying to do a job. One that is not often very popular.

    Why blame the stores and security people for improper training? If people didn't steal or fight back there wouldn't be a problem. Caught is caught.

    Would I shoot someone for trying to steal my stuff? No, but I would confront them. It is MY stuff. I worked hard for it and don't feel it is my obligation to give it to whomever decides they want to take it.
    If they tried to come at me, then I would shoot them.

    Bottom line. in my opinion, We as a society, need to be MUCH more courteous and tolerant of each other. That includes the driver that cut you off at the light, the mom with a crying baby and her arms full, the security person at the store, and even the guy on the cell phone in the restaurant. If we were all more polite we would all feel less hostility.

    We also need to accept thet criminals are criminals. They deserve to be responded to as such. They don't live by the laws and courtisies that the rest of us do. I have little sympathy for them.
     
  8. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    19,663
    Location:
    Deep in the Ozarks
    The witness providing these details is a lawyer. :barf:

    If we're not careful, we'll wind up like England, where an ederly man who had suffered multiple home invasions and beatings finally shot and wounded an attacker -- and was sent to prison because, as the judge said, he was "a danger to burglars."
     
  9. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,645
    Correct. It's much easier just to go the ER and let the ambulances come to you. (or in this case, pure dumb luck upon it). Bottom line, if they weren't trained properly, AND if their actions caused his death, AND if their actions weren't reasonable, under the circumstances, then their master (Walmart) should pay, and pay dearly.
     
  10. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,056
    "He's a criminal, we treat criminals poorly so that people dont want to continue being criminals. People like this are a blight on society and we have no only a right but an obligation to keep them under control."

    That's what I'm saying, it start with mistreating the people who are we feel least empathy with. Obviously no-one wants to side with the fat naked smelly shoplifter, who want's to be associated with that? But when he's dieing on the scalding tarmac, begging for his life, offering intelligent alternatives to being murdered "please, don't kill me, handcuff me to a stationary object, please..."

    ...Well, like I say I understand why people are OK with this, the man is repugnant. But you have to understand, you HAVE TO understand, that YOU'RE NEXT. Maybe not directly next, but if you give this situation a pass, sooner or later, your turn will come.

    Which should concern me, but how can I give a flip anymore. Savings rates show so many people approaching retirement age with a net deficit in their savings, it's quite obvious the majority of the population lacks the ability to plan ahead, not precognition but simply simple foresight. What I'm trying to explain, what 10-year old kids used to understand about the nature of rights, requires simple foresight.
     
  11. C96

    C96 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    419
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley Oregon
    I do think Mr. Quick covered this incident most succinctly with the thoughts :

    "Once it reaches a certain level of intensity; stupidity IS a capital crime."

    The perp worked hard to get what he got, he had several oppportunities to avoid going face down.

    allan
     
  12. Yooper

    Yooper Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    570
    Location:
    U.P. Michigan
    I don't know for certain what happened, it sounds like everyone involved did the wrong thing. The lawyers will come out of it well, though.
     
  13. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,236
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    You know, the general WalMart customer who doesn't steal and take flight doesn't have to deal with such circumstances. I know lots of folks who shop Walmart and who don't steal and don't scuffle with store security and nothing like this happens to them.
     
  14. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,056
    Come on, he's a thief. A shoplifter. He was tackled, and restrained. It could even be understood if he was given a bit of a beating, I think people could deal with that (since that's how we define right and wrong I guess).

    But fat naked smelly man is dead, ah hell what do I care. What goes around comes around, I just hope that fate remembers I was against this sort of thing.
     
  15. kbr80

    kbr80 member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    AR
    Wow, just wow. I can understand wanting the criminal to get what he/she deserves, but folks come on. Once a person is in custody, in handcuffs, whoever placed said person in cuffs is responsible for that person health and welfare, period. It does not matter one bit what that person did, or is suspected of doing. The LP at Wal Marts screwed the pooch on this one.
     
  16. No_Brakes23

    No_Brakes23 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,604
    Location:
    Everett, WA Recently escaped from San Diego, PRK
    Maybe there is a very good reason why people by and large have this opinion of LP folks.

    Just in my experience, most I have met might as well have Fails At Life written on their forehead, and many were LEO rejects. That is just my experience, but I think it is not abnormal. Take my local Target as an example. All the employees wear red tops and khaki bottoms except for their rather obvious LPS who dresses like LAPD. The guy looks like he just got dragged away from playing Dungeons & Dragons, or is upset because he is missing a "really important" guild meeting on Everquest. His pony-tail looks like a giant cat turd, and I can't help but laugh when it swings around as he paces the doorway.

    No doubt, there are many good LP folk who look professional and do what they do, but I just don't seem to see any.

    Perhaps you are aware of the high school and grammar school stereotype of the "Hall Monitor"? Very much the same sort of thing with Mall Ninjas.
     
  17. Group9

    Group9 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    125
    We also remind readers that there is no proof he actually took anything.

    Maybe, someone should remind readers that there is no proof that Wal-Mart employees chased him or detained him either, if that is the rule.
     
  18. Buck Snort

    Buck Snort Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    N. CA.
    Yeah Group9, right. And there's no proof that you even exist yet here's you post in this forum. Nobody here is demanding PROOF! Its just an incident reported in the newspaper. Lighten up.
     
  19. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,477
    Location:
    Seattle
    You might consider reading the entire thread prior to responding. You would then have discovered that group 9 was pointing out the absurdity of a previous comment. A notion that you appear to agree with.
     
  20. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,056
    It's probably not a sound idea to cast aspersions on all LPs, bell curve probably applies just as well to them as anyone else, with some modifications. Perhaps the good ones aren't seen, because they're good.

    For failing out of LEO tests, know a guy's brother who got 94 instead of the required 95, and they said 'buh-bye'. Worst part - he paid them cash just to take the test...:scrutiny: Several hundred $, paper must have gone up in price. :scrutiny: Damn carnies.
     
  21. No_Brakes23

    No_Brakes23 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,604
    Location:
    Everett, WA Recently escaped from San Diego, PRK
    More than likely that is true.

    The bad ones stick out in any profession.
     
  22. PCGS65

    PCGS65 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    766
    What a shame. This reminds me of the man from brazil that was killed in great britain.
     
  23. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,233
    Location:
    Central IN
    I think for sake of the argument here, we have to assume that he did take something, or at least the LP guys felt he took something, that was not paid for. But those of you saying that he deserved or earned to be held to the ground basically until he died might need to do some soul-searching or something. I mean, if your wives or mothers ran a stop sign and a police officer saw her do it, called for backup and a total of three officers handcuffed her, held her on a cool road and watched a cruiser roll over her a couple times and failed to stop that even though a civilian was telling them that it probably wasn't safe to let police cruisers roll over lawbreakers, you can't tell me that you wouldn't be going ballistic over it! I fail to see how this is radically different. One person did something bad, other folks stopped him and detained him and more than likely because of their actions, the law breaker dies.

    I still say that unless he was hopped up on something, Walmart killed him.

    We will obviously have to wait to hear more about the toxicology report before even attempting to pass judgement though...
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2005
  24. Janitor

    Janitor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,301
    Location:
    MN
    As the report is written, yes ... they screwed a very big pooch.
    Yup - no doubt that it's a shame. But last I read about it, the guy in the UK wasn't:

    - fat
    - naked
    - stealing something from somebody
    - killed through neglegence

    ... on second thought - there was neglegence involved in his death. But the people who popped seven caps in him weren't surprised by his death. Just by who they killed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2005
  25. kbr80

    kbr80 member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    AR

    Hmm, maybe you missed this part.



    Again, when you handcuff and detain someone, YOU are responsible for their welfare, thats how it is.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice