Quantcast

Walker vs Dragoon

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by 2nd1858, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. 2nd1858

    2nd1858 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    3
    I am not sure which to get. Does the modern Walker still have the loading lever problems

    I found an Uberti Walker in stock.

    My Pietta 1858 sometimes throws it's loading lever. I think its a 2013
     
    hrt4me likes this.
  2. DocRock

    DocRock Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,502
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    The Walker is cool as all get out for its 60 grs capacity and behemoth size. But it's more of a cavalry carbine repeater than a revolver. Weight, and things like an unmodified loading lever, make it somewhat impractical.

    The Dragoon is the logical progression of the arm. Somewhat more practical in size. Still get nearly 50 grs in it and yet is can be worn as a belt revolver. I cannot speak to the loading lever situation with the Dragoon models.
     
    hrt4me likes this.
  3. alexander45

    alexander45 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    really hot place
    Yeah there's no way to build the walker with out the lever problem short of hand fitting the retention spring which takes way way to long for a production line but is easy to do your self.
    the dragoon models are a interesting bit in that you can see the product line advance from the walker, to the whitneyville dragoon (a cut up walker), then first model, second, then finally 3rd model which stayed colts .44 army gun until the 1860 hit the scene.
     
  4. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,978
    Location:
    Morgan County, Alabama
    The loading lever problem was a design bug present in originals. Later designs had a latch because Colt was aware of the problem.
     
  5. DDDWho

    DDDWho Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    541
    I bought the Walker because of it’s history and it’s behemoth size. It’s an attention getter and a great conversation piece. 06-DB9-A98-7162-4-DB8-8-C6-E-FD1-E79-FF72-AF.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
    hrt4me, robhof, Gordon and 3 others like this.
  6. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    I would like to have, and would prefer a 3rd model Dragoon, over a Walker, as I think it's a better looking revolver, and the rammer on the Walker, besides being problematic, is kind of butt-ugly. And the pistol as a whole kind seems like "too much" of a good thing. But great if you own a horse. But even with a horse, I'd rather have a pair of dragoons.

    The Dragoon also has a historical connection to where I live, as they were used, dropped, and dug up later where Col.Steptoe got his butt badly beat by the local tribes. Even closer to where I live, almost walking distance, (ten miles?) was where the Model 1855 Springfield rifle was first "fired in anger", where Col.Wright met the same tribes and "punished" them for whooping on Steptoe. !!! So, need to get a good replica of a 1855 someday, even though I have a 1861, same rifle but without the primer tape thingy-ma-bob-doo-hickey.
     
    hrt4me and rodwha like this.
  7. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    Oh yeah, any of the C&B revolvers can drop the rammer on firing. But all can be fixed. Just a quality control issue. Usually a matter of the wrong angles on the latch and stud cuts, or shallow cuts, and a weak spring, or a combination of it all.
     
    ThomasT likes this.
  8. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,862
    Location:
    Texas
    Initially, looking for a handgun for a hunting sidearm, I was drawn to the Dragoon 2nd Model (I like the trigger guard). But I talked to my father who worked out a ROA on a trade. Now I’d take the Walker, mostly for its historic reemergence of Colt, but also because it’s just epic between the two, not to mention it would potentially make a better primary hunting weapon when allowed. Now were the loading levers not easily fixed (I’ve seen a few not as easy fixes too) it would be another story.

    If a Dragoon stock can be attached it would make a nice hog carbine with WFN conicals!
     
    hrt4me likes this.
  9. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    Pe Ell WA
    I agree, but good luck finding one. I think ASM in the 70's was the only manufacturer to offer one, and they are about worth their weight in gold if you can find one.

    Regards,

    Jim
     
    Gordon and rodwha like this.
  10. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,862
    Location:
    Texas

    I’ve looked at what it might take to make one for my Ruger. I’ve wondered about a wooden one that attaches as one of the wooden grip panels, but I’m not sure if it would be strong enough. I’ve seen someone attach a skeletal stock from an air gun or something too.
     
    hrt4me and arcticap like this.
  11. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    3rd model Dragoon with a shoulder stock....droooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.
     
    robhof, Gordon and rodwha like this.
  12. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    Pe Ell WA
    OK, grab a toddy or a coffee (your preference), sit back, and enjoy.

    Dr. Jim L. Davis (Claremore OK) was the originator and, basically, the sole provider/collector of the site RPRCA (Replica Percussion Revolver Collector Association) since about ~2008. He collected all manner of Italian/Belgian/Spanish reproduction revolvers (some of which he put into cased sets with accoutrements) and was the sole owner of these revolvers. Dr. Davis passed away in September 2019 and most, if not all, of the collection was obtained by an outfit in Idaho, October Country. Around November/December 2019 OC put them all up for sale, but in increments. The prices were unbelievably inexpensive for collector stuff, and then there ensued a feeding frenzy when the word got out. The owner of OC could not even come close to keeping up with the demand, and buyers had to visit the site every day to see what new items were presented and what were sold. I managed to copy/download many photos of revolvers offered in a 6-month period, but only managed to obtain two cased sets. One would see a new offering, put it in their cart, only to find someone else beat one to it. It was that intense. Things slowed quite a bit around the end of January, but new offerings were displayed every Friday for a few months, and every day one would have visit to see what was new.

    Around 1973-1975, Armi San Marco marketed quite a few 3rd Model Dragoons with shoulder stocks, and some were cased sets. All had 3-leaf rear sights mounted on the barrel lug. The shoulder stock furniture varied from blackened brass (early) to blackened steel (late). IMO, neither Uberti nor any other manufacturer offered these sights. They were very historically accurate.

    This was offered by OC and I missed snagging it by a few hours. IIRC, it sold for less than $600.

    O-C-ASM-3rd-Model-Dragoon-Shoulder-Stock-001.jpg
    O-C-ASM-3rd-Model-Dragoon-Shoulder-Stock-002.jpg

    This one showed up a few weeks later with an 18" barrel and holster:

    OC-ASM-3rd-Model-Dragoon-Shoulder-Stock-001.jpg

    OC-ASM-3rd-Model-Dragoon-Shoulder-Stock-002.jpg

    Enjoy!

    Regards,

    Jim
     
  13. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    Toddy? I needed two shots of Jack for that. I may need one more, and then just stare at the pics for an hour or so. Wow. I'm just over the border, near Cheney from OC. Dang.
     
    robhof likes this.
  14. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Ohio
  15. grter

    grter Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    851
    I like the 9 inch barrel of the walker and the ability to load 60 grains. What I don't like is the loading lever dropping. I do not think any fixes to the lever spring catch of the Walker is a 100% sure solution. A thin piece of cord is probably a good reliable solution but I wonder if it would get snagged or pulled off in a holster. I also prefer rectangular cylinder locking notches with leads milled in. The Walker is heavy.

    I prefere the 2nd model Dragoon to the 1st and 3rd because it has a square back trigger guard that looks bigger and might work better for gloved hands. This may be visual only but correct me if I am wrong. It also has rectangular locking notches with lead in that the 1st model does not have. While the Dragoon holds less powder than the Walker it still can hold a significant charge so it's not a big deal and the smaller charge capacity makes it more idiot proof.

    I have mixed feelings on the shorter barrel of the Dragoon. It does make it more portable but with black powder extra barrel length does make a difference. While the latched loading lever setup is supposed to be better I am not convinced it's 100% immune to unlatching when heavy loads are fired. The dragoon is also significantly lighter than the Walker which is a big plus but on the other hand it's still a heavy horse pistol. I would not want a Dragoon hanging off my belt all day either. I like the looks of the Dragoon better but the Walker may have an edge in range and power.

    I don't know about Uberti Dragoons but grinding out the one sided loading channel of the Uberti Walker to accept conical bullets like the authentic antique originals did is a real pain that requires both the inside diameter of the too thin inner loading channel be made wider as well as widening the side opening so longer conicals could slip into the channel.
     
    hrt4me likes this.
  16. BLACKHAWKNJ

    BLACKHAWKNJ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    383
    I have both, prefer the Dragoon, better balanced, the heft is better-for me, at least.
     
  17. drobs

    drobs Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Missouri
    I guess, I need a Walker to go with my Paterson.
    I mentioned this recently, Dixie Gun Works had a pair of ASM or Uberti Walker in one of their glass gun cabinets sitting next to an 1860. It was HUGE in comparison. Looking at pics of it online just doesn't do justice as to how big of a revolver it really is.

    Once I have a Walker, I'll need a Dragoon to go with it.
     
    PainlessWolf likes this.
  18. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    If I had a Walker, I think the first thing I'd do would be to adapt a Dragoon rammer to it, or "create" a Dragoon or 1860/1851 etc. rammer for it. Would not be hard to do. But still, I'd take the Dragoon over the Walker, because if the extra powder capacity and barrel length was really an advantage to me, then maybe what I really needed was a short artillery carbine or Musketoon.

    As pointed out, even the Dragoon is not ideal for belt carry, but if it was one's only weapon when out in the field, (not packing a rifle or shotgun) you weren't a little guy, and you had a good wide pistol belt, and a over-the-shoulder strap connected to the pistol belt, I think it would be doable. Maybe even a suspender kind of rig for it, kind of like a LBE belt and suspenders.

    As mentioned before, all the C&B revolvers will drop the rammer if the charge is heavy, latch spring is weak, and the angles wrong or not deep enough. I believe all the Walkers will drop the rammer....period.
     
  19. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,801
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Many just fix the lever drop problem with a bit of thin rawhide or leather shoe lace. I can picture a Texas Ranger doing just that. The rangers were the primary users of the Walker, named after their famous Captain. It was he who first approached Sam Colt with a request for a revolver of sufficient power to kill a horse. So if it’s horses you want to .......:)

    On a more somber note there are folks on these forums who can set up that Walker so it will never drop its lever or suck caps, one took his handle from Dragoon. Goons Gun Works.
    My Walker does not drop its lever even under 60 grain charges.
     
    45 Dragoon, robhof and rodwha like this.
  20. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    And what can kill a horse, can get a bear's attention, so probably not a bad gun to have in the woods. Those facing the Rangers with their new Walkers must have been in for a shock. Shock and AWE for sure.

    I suppose a good smith could get the rammer to stop dropping, but sounds like an uphill, tedious battle. ! And don't forget the Kid, the Outlaw Kid that is. He rocks. I heard that when he gets done tuning a revolver, he goes out in the desert and tests it on Comancheros. But that could just be a rumor.

    What a smith can't fix about the Walker, is the butt-ugliness of that rammer. :) Major butt ugly. Coyote ugly. Look up ugly in the dictionary, and you see a picture of a rammer off a Colt Walker. Big old bulbous thing.
     
    robhof, whughett and woodnbow like this.
  21. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    788
    A Sam Browne rig like the Mounties wear could be just the thing.
     
    Ugly Sauce likes this.
  22. Bill Raby

    Bill Raby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    267
    A slight forward bend in the spring right at the thick part will fix the problem of the loading lever dropping. Mine has not dropped in years after doing that.
     
    robhof and Ugly Sauce like this.
  23. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    705
    Hey...what if you super-magnetized the rammer?? Now that would be "trick". !!!!
     
  24. 2nd1858

    2nd1858 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    3
    The shoulder stock is sweet. Yeah I basically just want it as a collection piece.

    Tying a lace sounds good. Tho if I saw dargoon with stock wow I would have to get one.

    I am still on the fence I am also looking for a Stainless Pietta 1858 since I have the sheriffs and 2 conversion cylinders
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
    robhof likes this.
  25. BLACKHAWKNJ

    BLACKHAWKNJ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    383
    I have seen pictures of an h-shaped clip to hold the Walker's rammer in place.
    You buy them for the history, those crude and hard to see sights take a lot of getting used to.
    Remember when you fire the Dragoon or 1860 Army with the shoulder stock you keep both hands on the grip.
    Otherwise your support hand will feel it from the barrel/cylinder gap.
     
    robhof, drobs and Ugly Sauce like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice